From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 11:51:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FFpTa6012047 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:51:29 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151551.i5FFpTa6012047@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 14620 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 15:51:29 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 15:51:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:51:29 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0304" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 352110 Lines: 9540 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:21:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: grids, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Fuller designed a system of hijack-resistant travel pods. See http://buckminster.info/Ideas/10-EndTransPods.htm and http://buckminster.info/Ideas/10-EndTransModularRapidTransit.htm and http://buckminster.info/Ideas/10-EndTransModular.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: grids, etc. > The question of the global grid has brought up the question of global > security. Is a unified grid more vulnerable? > > I thought the idea mostly had to do with efficiency and economy. > Everybody turns out the lights in one location when everyone is > turning them on in another. One could think of countless > technological arrangements which involved unification and would look > very attractive in terms of efficiency and economy. > > What if there were transportation pods which could be delivered to > any location say within 10 minutes of request, which latched onto > some sort of tracking system, could branch off at any point, or feed > into high-speed networks for longer distance travel. Could operate > at a fraction of the material and energy cost of our present system, > but getting the popular consensus would be quite a challenge. One > factor would certainly be the vulnerability of such a system to > sabotage. > > One could visualize huge environmentally controlled spaces with film > skins which could reduce energy costs in cities to a tiny fraction of > what they are. Vulnerable to those bad guys again! Not to mention > people with flatulence. > > If shared systems were redundant and easily repaired, then the > vulnerability issue might be solvable. Then the problem might just > be our old friend the ego. > > Bob Sanderson > megadome@meganet.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:30:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: grids, etc. Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Here's more details on Fuller's proposed Global Electricity Storage & Distribution Grid: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/10-EndEnergyDistribGrid.htm For information about the technical aspects of high voltage electrical transmission see these people: http://www.geni.org/ And for tensegrity dome-covered cities see http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeCityCrater.htm and http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeCityDowntownCover.htm The larger a dome is, the less vulnerable it is to local damage. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: grids, etc. > The question of the global grid has brought up the question of global > security. Is a unified grid more vulnerable? > > I thought the idea mostly had to do with efficiency and economy. > Everybody turns out the lights in one location when everyone is > turning them on in another. One could think of countless > technological arrangements which involved unification and would look > very attractive in terms of efficiency and economy. > > What if there were transportation pods which could be delivered to > any location say within 10 minutes of request, which latched onto > some sort of tracking system, could branch off at any point, or feed > into high-speed networks for longer distance travel. Could operate > at a fraction of the material and energy cost of our present system, > but getting the popular consensus would be quite a challenge. One > factor would certainly be the vulnerability of such a system to > sabotage. > > One could visualize huge environmentally controlled spaces with film > skins which could reduce energy costs in cities to a tiny fraction of > what they are. Vulnerable to those bad guys again! Not to mention > people with flatulence. > > If shared systems were redundant and easily repaired, then the > vulnerability issue might be solvable. Then the problem might just > be our old friend the ego. > > Bob Sanderson > megadome@meganet.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:00:01 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Tue Apr 1 00:00:01 PST 2003. If you are tired of receiving this message once per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. Other lists that focuses more specifically on some of these topics can be found on the Reality Sculptors Website: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC A web page to signon is available here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/user/sub.html When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. 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Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) Web-searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:52:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dude, you should get back to Joe, and try to make some sense of *his* conjecture, and then you miht be able to salvage some thing that is comprehensive; I now take it that this was where you got the idea, in a near-fatal collision with Descartes and his theorem (and the "theorem eggregium" o'Gauss .-) not that I could see that Joe had a clue, at this time!... and, don't forget to nag Jean Petit, whom you trolled to support *your* conjecture, what ever it is. please note that, by Gauss's formulation of courvature, it is zero for flat & cylindrical & conical shapes, as they can be formed without much deformation of really-thin material. as we worked-out, previously, the "spherics" like a map can be folded from flat paper, using cylindrical folds, just as plywood can be so-formed with "induced [cylindrical] struts." thus quoth: presumably, all of the domes that don't use flat panels, will be using compound curvature -- --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:12:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dude, you should get back to Joe, and try to make some sense of *his* conjecture, and then you miht be able to salvage some thing that is comprehensive; I now take it that this was where you got the idea, in a near-fatal collision with Descartes and his theorem (and the "theorem eggregium" o'Gauss .-) not that I could see that Joe had a clue, at this time!... and, don't forget to nag Jean Petit, whom you trolled to support *your* conjecture, what ever it is. please note that, by Gauss's formulation of courvature, flat, cylindrical & conical surfaces have *no* curvature, but "spherics" can be folded with cylindrical folds, just as plywood can be joined with "induced [cylindrical] struts." --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:15:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed shock: the Califonia "energy crisis." awe: Cheney's two taskforces on Iraq, followed by the bait-and-switch of 2001/09/11. thus we have a "programme" of Harry Potter, Tony Blair and "George Orwell" (a pen name), to get "USEmpire" into a 100-years war? dump these freaks from our republic's leadership: http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3013perle.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/030316himmler_ii.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/030325war_hitler_cheney.html thus quoth: The status of any country can be checked by going to this website http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/contents.html and searching for a particular country like Iraq http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html and then scrolling down to, for example, the "Electric Power" section. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:05:01 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually, this is a rather nice description about what a ranDome is, in its exterior embodiment. The only difference between a plydome and a randome is a randome is asymmetrical. The only important thing about a randome is how many vertexes does it have. In other words, all compound curvature, all 720 degrees, is in the vertexes. But, then, that's just what you said. Everywhere else, there is no compound curvature. The task is to name edge length in terms of n, the number of vertexes. Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > dude, you should get back to Joe, and > try to make some sense of *his* conjecture, and > then you miht be able to salvage some thing that is > comprehensive; > please note that, by Gauss's formulation of courvature, > flat, cylindrical & conical surfaces have *no* curvature, > but > "spherics" can be folded with cylindrical folds, just as > plywood can be joined with "induced [cylindrical] > struts." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You bet I will. And I won't forget Petit. Something wrong with trolling?? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > dude, you should get back to Joe, and > try to make some sense of *his* conjecture, and > then you miht be able to salvage some thing that is > comprehensive; > I now take it that this was where you got the idea, > in a near-fatal collision with Descartes and his theorem > (and > the "theorem eggregium" o'Gauss .-) > not that I could see that Joe had a clue, > at this time!... and, don't forget to nag Jean Petit, > whom you trolled to support *your* conjecture, > what ever it is. > > please note that, by Gauss's formulation of courvature, > it is zero for flat & cylindrical & conical shapes, as > they can be formed without much deformation > of really-thin material. as we worked-out, previously, > the "spherics" like a map can be folded > from flat paper, using cylindrical folds, just as > plywood can be so-formed with "induced [cylindrical] > struts." > > thus quoth: > presumably, all of the domes that don't use flat panels, > will be using compound curvature -- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:35:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed nice try, Fischstichk, for creative writing class. how does a vertex "haveth curvature?" anyway, a plydome doens't have to be symmetrical. maybe Joe can hammer that into a propellor-cap for you. you can fool some of the people, all of the time! thus quoth: The only difference between a plydome and a randome is a randome is asymmetrical. The only important thing about a randome is how many vertexes does it have. In other words, all compound curvature, all 720 degrees, is in the vertexes. But, then, that's just what you said. Everywhere else, there is no compound curvature. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:13:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Zeiss and Fuller dome patents are fundamentally different. Each used a different technique to divide up a basic geometric shape into triangles. Please see: German patent # 415,395 USA patent # 2,682,235 The Geodesic Works of Richard Buckminster Fuller, 1948-68, vol 2, figs 2.27a, 2.27b, 2.27c, 2.27d, 2.27e, and 2.27i Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel rings which induced hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore inducing Japanese lantern foldability. The triangulated great circle (geodesic) method has no such flaw. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:50 PM Subject: The Fuller Folly > From: "RAS" > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:53:02 -0700 > > There has been some question as to the credit of Fuller and > the Geodesic dome. Since I am a avid astronomer that was for > a time all I did care about. I seen this before and lost it, > but this link http://www.telacommunications.com/geodome.htm > shows that as early as 1919 Bauersfeld "built a light iron > rod framework, the design a highly sub-divided icosahedron, > with great circle arcs." for a star dome. > > Hummmmm My Mother remembers that dome she went there when > she was a little girl and got to see the stars, inside that > very dome. I didn't know that till just now. > > Taking into account of the feelings the US had to the > Germans around that time I can see how this little fact was > first hidden with fantasy and fork lore and latter dropped. > And I need to ask now if all Fuller did was take his money > to the patent office and cash in on some fame from the > investment. As well I also need to now question if the > people with the biggest voice about how Fuller invented the > geodesic dome, are not just keeping the image alive because > they might have there hands in some trust fund. To date they > do say "it was his grandest achievement", but was it his or > did he just get to the patent office first? I use to think > he had a deep heart but I'm starting to think it was his > pockets and his heart had nothing to do with any of it. > > Fuller received a patent on a dome based on circles. because > the one made in 1919 was based on the sub-divided > icosahedron was at that time already public knowledge, and > he couldn't receive a patent on that dome, so he divided a > sphere up with circles and got a patent on a different dome. > > I think now I'm going to feel sick every time anyone looks > at a sub-divided icosahedron based sphere then slips and > says "Fuller invented that". Makes me want to cry. > > Maybe we should stop saying Fuller invented anything and > only got lucky on one thing he invested his money in and > that would be a different kind of dome made with circles. To > now call him the inventor of the geodesic dome is something > I refuse to do any longer, and that is my own personal view. > > Did fuller invent the geodesic dome? I'm starting to think > the only thing Fuller did was have some cash to spend and > went and got a Lotto-patent. > > The more fuller and his supporters (or is that dependents) > talk about Fuller, the more I want to research and see if > I'm just nuts or they are. Knowing how patents, pockets and > supporters work, I'd have to say I just dropped 20 tons on > Fuller city. > > Could this be the reason the current dictionaries say a > geodesic dome is made of polygons and not circles? > Hummmmmmm.....I need to update my web page. I think we all > should. > > http://advanced-geodesic-domes.com/ > Robert A Siedentopf > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 06:55:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" To Robert Siedentopf- Whether Fuller invented the geodesic dome or not has not been a big issue for me. What Fuller "invented" for me was a convincing demonstration that the world could adequately provide for humanity. But even that "invention" was not completely new. A week ago at a church (do I dare say I go to church?) meeting, ostensibly on the subject of the church's involvement with environmental issues, the consensus at the end of the meeting seemed to be that the fundamental problem facing mankind is overpopulation. So, although Fuller's architectural accomplishments are now a subject for archeological studies, his central discovery hasn't come on the screen yet. Bob Sanderson >The Zeiss and Fuller dome patents are fundamentally different. Each used a >different technique to divide up a basic geometric shape into triangles. >Please see: > >German patent # 415,395 >USA patent # 2,682,235 >The Geodesic Works of Richard Buckminster Fuller, 1948-68, vol 2, figs >2.27a, 2.27b, 2.27c, 2.27d, 2.27e, and 2.27i > >Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel rings which induced >hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore inducing Japanese lantern >foldability. The triangulated great circle (geodesic) method has no such >flaw. > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The DomeHome List" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:50 PM >Subject: The Fuller Folly > > > > From: "RAS" > > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:53:02 -0700 > > > > There has been some question as to the credit of Fuller and > > the Geodesic dome. Since I am a avid astronomer that was for > > a time all I did care about. I seen this before and lost it, > > but this link http://www.telacommunications.com/geodome.htm > > shows that as early as 1919 Bauersfeld "built a light iron > > rod framework, the design a highly sub-divided icosahedron, > > with great circle arcs." for a star dome. > > > > Hummmmm My Mother remembers that dome she went there when > > she was a little girl and got to see the stars, inside that > > very dome. I didn't know that till just now. > > > > Taking into account of the feelings the US had to the > > Germans around that time I can see how this little fact was > > first hidden with fantasy and fork lore and latter dropped. > > And I need to ask now if all Fuller did was take his money > > to the patent office and cash in on some fame from the > > investment. As well I also need to now question if the > > people with the biggest voice about how Fuller invented the > > geodesic dome, are not just keeping the image alive because > > they might have there hands in some trust fund. To date they > > do say "it was his grandest achievement", but was it his or > > did he just get to the patent office first? I use to think > > he had a deep heart but I'm starting to think it was his > > pockets and his heart had nothing to do with any of it. > > > > Fuller received a patent on a dome based on circles. because > > the one made in 1919 was based on the sub-divided > > icosahedron was at that time already public knowledge, and > > he couldn't receive a patent on that dome, so he divided a > > sphere up with circles and got a patent on a different dome. > > > > I think now I'm going to feel sick every time anyone looks > > at a sub-divided icosahedron based sphere then slips and > > says "Fuller invented that". Makes me want to cry. > > > > Maybe we should stop saying Fuller invented anything and > > only got lucky on one thing he invested his money in and > > that would be a different kind of dome made with circles. To > > now call him the inventor of the geodesic dome is something > > I refuse to do any longer, and that is my own personal view. > > > > Did fuller invent the geodesic dome? I'm starting to think > > the only thing Fuller did was have some cash to spend and > > went and got a Lotto-patent. > > > > The more fuller and his supporters (or is that dependents) > > talk about Fuller, the more I want to research and see if > > I'm just nuts or they are. Knowing how patents, pockets and > > supporters work, I'd have to say I just dropped 20 tons on > > Fuller city. > > > > Could this be the reason the current dictionaries say a > > geodesic dome is made of polygons and not circles? > > Hummmmmmm.....I need to update my web page. I think we all > > should. > > > > http://advanced-geodesic-domes.com/ > > Robert A Siedentopf > > > > > > .:'':. > > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > > http://www.hoflin.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:21:13 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > nice try, Fischstichk, for creative writing class. > how does a vertex "haveth curvature?" It "hath" some amount of curvature, defined by its angular deviation from the flat. A vertex is not a vertex without deviation from flat. It can have positive or negative curvature. A vertex has more than or less than 360 degrees around it. You know this. >anyway, > a plydome doens't have to be symmetrical. I agree. A plydome does not have to be symmetric. That is my point. Can you please provide a link to some evidence of an assymetric plydome? I am not aware that there are any. I am sure Joe M. or Steve M. can assist you, if neccessary. Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:29:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe This is an important distinction. Do you have the link or page number to the passage with this expanation? Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel rings > which induced > hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore inducing > Japanese lantern > foldability. The triangulated great circle (geodesic) > method has no such > flaw. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:58:46 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bob, Like you I find Fuller's message that the world could adequately provide for humanity to be his most important contribution. I am not as concerned with overpopulation as you are. The rate of population growth has slowed and there are now projections for a point of a stabilized population. There are even some that are concerned that the rapidity of the decrease in the fertility rate could result in a problematic demographic imbalance. I saw an article just this week concerning the current birth rate in Western Europe which is below the rate of replacement. I believe it was 1.7 children per couple. I remember a study years ago by Barry Commoner that showed that when cultures reach a certain point of development their populations stabilized. He said the he had found that this point of stabilization was correlated roughly with the stage of indoor plumbing (no, indoor plumbing is not causally related). I find his conclusions to be supportive of Fullers providing for everybody approach. There is often an anti-technology aspect to Commoner's work, but this I believe Fuller adequately addresses in his view of how technology should be applied. I found a couple of Commoner articles on population that might be of interest. How Poverty Breeds Overpopulation (and not the other way around) http://mthwww.uwc.edu/wwwmahes/courses/geog/malthus/ramparts.htm MAKING PEACE WITH THE PLANET: POPULATION AND POVERTY http://www.geocities.com/combusem/COMMONR1.HTM Take care, Dave Watkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 6:55 AM > To Robert Siedentopf- > > Whether Fuller invented the geodesic dome or not has not been a big > issue for me. What Fuller "invented" for me was a convincing > demonstration that the world could adequately provide for humanity. > But even that "invention" was not completely new. > > A week ago at a church (do I dare say I go to church?) meeting, > ostensibly on the subject of the church's involvement with > environmental issues, the consensus at the end of the meeting seemed > to be that the fundamental problem facing mankind is overpopulation. > So, although Fuller's architectural accomplishments are now a subject > for archeological studies, his central discovery hasn't come on the > screen yet. > > Bob Sanderson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:07:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > dump these freaks from our republic's leadership: http://www.votetoimpeach.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:31:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, See http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?ns ections=41 especially # 761 & 765. This is from Wong's MIT thesis which is online. There's a TON of interesting material if one takes the time to look at each scan, a lot of it not available anywhere else! -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:29 AM Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > Joe > > This is an important distinction. Do you have the link or > page number to the passage with this expanation? > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel rings > > which induced > > hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore inducing > > Japanese lantern > > foldability. The triangulated great circle (geodesic) > > method has no such > > flaw. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:56:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Lane >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:07:26 -0800 or vote to replace Irak's electric grid with hidrogen produced electricity is there a report of the actual state of Irak's grid? Gerardo García Madrid, Spain > >On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >>dump these freaks from our republic's leadership: > >http://www.votetoimpeach.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:22:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wow! What a resource! Thanks! So, basically, all the talk about Jena over the years has been unfounded. The Zeiss dome is not geodesic, because one third of the struts are not chords of great circles. They are actually small circle chords. Is this your understanding? I also notice some septagons in to structure, not just pentagons and hexagons. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > See > http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?ns > ections=41 > > especially # 761 & 765. > > This is from Wong's MIT thesis which is online. There's > a TON of > interesting material if one takes the time to look at > each scan, a lot of it > not available anywhere else! > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > > > > Joe > > > > This is an important distinction. Do you have the link > or > > page number to the passage with this expanation? > > > > Dick > > > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > > Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel > rings > > > which induced > > > hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore > inducing > > > Japanese lantern > > > foldability. The triangulated great circle > (geodesic) > > > method has no such > > > flaw. > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:47:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: <005601c2f939$1ff69120$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 08:58 AM, David Watkins wrote: > cultures reach a certain point of development their populations > stabilized. > He said the he had found that this point of stabilization was > correlated > roughly with the stage of indoor plumbing (no, indoor plumbing is not > causally related) I don't know Commoner's work in detail, but my understanding is that the causes of population stability and other measures of development, include literacy at the top of the list, especially literacy in the women. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:00:55 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: <005601c2f939$1ff69120$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dave, I mentioned the "overpopulation theory" which prevailed at my church's environmental issues meeting not as a viewpoint I share. Quite the opposite. I was just somewhat dismayed that it seemed to be so readily embraced by most of those present, and I suspect that a vast majority- perhaps especially in the "advanced" countries, would also hold this view. This is a natural result of a (mostly intuitive) computation that one's own impact, in the context of current technology, cannot possibly be extended as an option for everyone. Since technology is usually indistinguishable from "the environment" its a natural conclusion that "the environment" cannot support all the people. An uncle of mine, Paul Brooks, wrote many books on environment and conservation. He posed the question, which is more populated: a lake with 5 loud speedboats racing around with one person in each boat, or a lake with 12 canoes each containing two people? Bob >Bob, > >Like you I find Fuller's message that the world could adequately provide for >humanity to be his most important contribution. > >I am not as concerned with overpopulation as you are. The rate of population >growth has slowed and there are now projections for a point of a stabilized >population. There are even some that are concerned that the rapidity of the >decrease in the fertility rate could result in a problematic demographic >imbalance. I saw an article just this week concerning the current birth rate >in Western Europe which is below the rate of replacement. I believe it was >1.7 children per couple. > >I remember a study years ago by Barry Commoner that showed that when >cultures reach a certain point of development their populations stabilized. >He said the he had found that this point of stabilization was correlated >roughly with the stage of indoor plumbing (no, indoor plumbing is not >causally related). I find his conclusions to be supportive of Fullers >providing for everybody approach. There is often an anti-technology aspect >to Commoner's work, but this I believe Fuller adequately addresses in his >view of how technology should be applied. I found a couple of Commoner >articles on population that might be of interest. > >How Poverty Breeds Overpopulation (and not the other way around) >http://mthwww.uwc.edu/wwwmahes/courses/geog/malthus/ramparts.htm > >MAKING PEACE WITH THE PLANET: POPULATION AND POVERTY >http://www.geocities.com/combusem/COMMONR1.HTM > >Take care, > >Dave Watkins > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 6:55 AM > > > > > To Robert Siedentopf- > > > > Whether Fuller invented the geodesic dome or not has not been a big > > issue for me. What Fuller "invented" for me was a convincing > > demonstration that the world could adequately provide for humanity. > > But even that "invention" was not completely new. > > > > A week ago at a church (do I dare say I go to church?) meeting, > > ostensibly on the subject of the church's involvement with > > environmental issues, the consensus at the end of the meeting seemed > > to be that the fundamental problem facing mankind is overpopulation. > > So, although Fuller's architectural accomplishments are now a subject > > for archeological studies, his central discovery hasn't come on the > > screen yet. > > > > Bob Sanderson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:55:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Lane >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:47:11 -0800 Is there any subject in which (besides not giving the modeler of tensegrity enough credit that would suit his feelings) Fuller really failed? In this specific subject, was he not antiMalthusian? (besides advancing the 6,000 million "stability number") And if you are antiMalthusian you make some conclusions (about not enough land for anybody) when you get into a plane. Maybe the first spatial station tourist could have some magnified opinion whether or not it seems to be enough land for many other millions of people. Excuse my vulgarity, about "literacy :: not pregnancy" but it reminded me the story (a film? a Norman Mailer novel?) about the prostitute that use to attend their clients while reading something. Gerardo García Madrid, Spain. > >I don't know Commoner's work in detail, but my understanding is that >the causes of population stability and other measures of development, >include literacy at the top of the list, especially literacy in the >women. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:45:48 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm not sure if Commoner tried to isolate any factor as a cause. What I read was about correlating certain factors rather than isolating one as a cause. I would expect literacy to be a cause. This could however be hard to isolate, as I would expect as population declined there would be less pressure on, for example, the production of food which would free people from that task and allow for the development of literacy. For women having fewer children would possible free up even more time and open up options that could lead to literacy. Dave Watkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lane" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:47 AM Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > I don't know Commoner's work in detail, but my understanding is that > the causes of population stability and other measures of development, > include literacy at the top of the list, especially literacy in the > women. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:27:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Bob >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:00:55 -0500 Great for your uncle. Maybe more boats with more people are needed. Does anybody remember the question that a chinese boat (not precisely a love boat) posed on California? .... several thousand people trying to enter illegaly in the US some years ago. The answer?.... you, México, handle it! For me it is clear, the devices needed are the skateboard as in Back to the Future and an extra light thermal suit. But, what about the megatrend (convergence) that Teilhard de Chardin identified respecting human beings? Or what? are we going to bypass Fuller's discovering about the megatrend (10,000 years) of the Indian smugglers that were giving headaches to the British in South Africa? Is it that by geodesic.buffalo magic only what Fuller said is true? If one agrees with what Fuller identified respecting South Africa, shouldn't we pay attention to Teilhard's discoveries or theories. What if there is a trend of more than 10,000 years towards more and more compression among human beings? Isn't internet overemphasizing the feeling of compression, and that feeling is only to grow? Remember the McLuhan Alamo: the media is the massage. Gerardo García Madrid, Spain >An uncle of mine, Paul Brooks, wrote many books on environment and >conservation. He posed the question, which is more populated: a lake >with 5 loud speedboats racing around with one person in each boat, or >a lake with 12 canoes each containing two people? > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:20:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oneshouldalsolook at the article on "George Orwell," the Language Cop;search on "basic English" *a_a*, below. I mean,if the media's a masseuse, we are getting Rolfed unto death. asfor"IndianSmugglers," Imust nothave read that in_Critical Path_, but alot of that stuff comes from Sir Arnold of Vanderbilt U. were you also referring to the book, _1421_, about Junks a-came to Amerigo Vespucci Land? thus quoth: If one agrees with what Fuller identified respecting South Africa, shouldn't we pay attention to Teilhard's discoveries or theories. What if there is a trend of more than 10,000 years towards more and more compression among human beings? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:36:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed which picture had the Zeiss dome -- and your alleged heptagona?...notealso that, the guy had someof the cuboctah.(tetrakaidecaXIasteron)maps o'Fuller-- followed by the "Fisher New Near-Globe." yet another examplar of "trolling," your nondefinition of angular curvature at a vertex. yes, wealreadyknow about the total angular deficitof 720degrees per spheric,which also applies to compound-curved stuff (see Gauss-Bonnet th.),which can be stated in terms of exterior angles,I think. of course, they cannot bemade to be equal *in general*, because there are only a few regular shapes -- QED. youhave to work through a proof of the always-and-only five of those shapes,before youget to Descartes' th. and, don't be silly; youcan just as easilyfind ireegular geodesics, say on Miller's site,as I can-- I am not going to *assist* you in your trolling,anymore than I already may well have "to the nth degree/vertexion." youcanfool allof the braindead,all of the time! thus quoth: Can you please provide a link to some evidence of an assymetric plydome? I am not aware that there are any. I am sure Joe M. or Steve M. can assist you, if neccessary. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:08:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve Any asymmetric plydomes anywhere that you know of? I wouldn't think of the extra long plydome as asymmetric, but cylindrical. Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: you can just as easily find ireegular > geodesics, > say on Miller's site,as I can-- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:23:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Enlarge the left picture on page 761 at: http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > which picture had the Zeiss dome -- and > your alleged heptagona? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:29:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Obituary for H.S.M. Coxeter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is a long one (youcan go click "obits" at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ -- sorry, for violating the copyright; don't try to sell it :-) Donald Coxeter, who died on Monday aged 96, made fundamental contributions in the study of multi-dimensional geometric shapes and was regarded as the greatest classical geometer of his generation. Coxeter published in the geometrical field for 70 years, worked professionally at the University of Toronto for 60 years and wrote 12 books and more than 200 articles. He was best known for his work in hyperdimensional geometries and regular polytopes - complicated geometric shapes of any number of dimensions that cannot be constructed in the real world but can be described mathematically and can sometimes be drawn. In 1926, at the age of 19, he discovered a new regular polyhedron, having six hexagonal faces at each vertex. He went on to study the mathematics of kaleidoscopes and, by 1933, had enumerated the n-dimensional kaleidoscopes (kaleidoscopes operating up to any number of dimensions). His complex algebraic equations expressing how many images of an object may be seen in a kaleidoscope are now known as Coxeter groups. Coxeter's work on icosahedral symmetries played an important role in the discovery by scientists at Rice University, Texas, of the Carbon 60 molecule, for which they won the 1996 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Carbon 60 is now being tested as a superconductor for use in everything from chemotherapy and telecommunications to Aids research. He was guided by a profound and almost artistic appreciation of the beauty of symmetry and his work inspired many people outside the field of mathematics. Buckminster Fuller, the philosopher and architectural theorist, was inspired by Coxeter when he designed his famous geodesic dome. In a somewhat florid dedication to Coxeter in his book Synergetics, Buckminster Fuller described him as "the geometer of our bestirring twentieth century, the spontaneously acclaimed terrestrial curator of the historical inventory of the science of pattern analysis". Coxeter also became a close friend of the Dutch graphic artist Maurits Escher, whom he first met in 1954 at an international mathematics conference in Amsterdam. Escher had been growing tired of repeating birds and fish on a flat plane. He was aware of Coxeter's work on the reflections of shapes in multi-dimensional space and wanted to know more. Coxeter later sent Escher a copy of his paper Crystal Symmetry and Its Generalisations, which contained a series of complex geometric figures, including a pattern in which the motifs become ever smaller towards a limiting circle. Inspired by these designs, Escher went on to create a series of "Circle Limit" etchings, some of which he presented to Coxeter. In 1996 Coxeter published a paper in which he proved that, despite knowing no mathematics, Escher had achieved mathematical perfection in his etching Circle Limit III. Coxeter showed that the arabesques of intersecting arcs that form the backbones of the fish in the design are based on an arcane formula involving the cosine of an angle and the hyperbolic sine of a logarithmic function; "Escher did it by instinct," Coxeter explained, "I did it by trigonometry." Harold Scott MacDonald Coxeter, always known as Donald, was born into a Quaker family at Kensington, west London, on February 9 1907. His mother was a landscape artist and portrait painter, and his father a manufacturer of surgical instruments and anaesthetics. They had originally named their son MacDonald Scott Coxeter, but a godparent suggested that the boy's father's name, Harold, should be added at the front. Another relative pointed out that HMS Coxeter sounded too much like a battleship, so the names were switched around. Donald was fascinated by the patterns of numbers from an early age. His mother noticed that, when he was two or three, he became entranced with the columns of numbers printed on the financial pages of the newspapers. This juvenile fascination was soon replaced by an interest in cones, triangles and symmetrical geometric objects of all sorts. Yet it seemed, at first, that young Donald's talents lay elsewhere. He became an accomplished pianist and, as a child, composed piano pieces, a string quartet and, when he was 12, an opera. He also created his own language - "Amellaibian" - a cross between Latin and French, and filled a 126-page notebook with information on the imaginary world where it was spoken. At St George's School at Harpenden, he harboured hopes of becoming a composer. But his appreciation of the beauties of symmetry turned him towards mathematics. Convalescing in the school sanatorium with the chicken pox, he found himself lying next to John Flinders Petrie, son of the Egyptologist Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie. The two began chatting about H G Wells's Time Machine and about why there were only five Platonic solids, and passed the time contemplating the possibility of other dimensions. A few years later, Donald won a school prize for an essay on how to project geometric shapes into higher dimensions. Impressed with his son's talents, Coxeter's father took him to meet the philosopher Bertrand Russell, who concluded he was brilliant and put him in contact with the mathematician E H Neville. Neville met the young prodigy, deemed his school inadequate, and suggested that he drop all subjects save mathematics and German (as the best mathematicians were German) and recommended him a private tutor in mathematics. Coxeter won a scholarship to Trinity College, Cambridge, where he was one of only five students selected by Ludwig Wittgenstein to attend his philosophy of mathematics classes. After graduating with a First, he took a doctorate under H F Baker in 1931 then remained at Cambridge as a research fellow. During this period, he spent two years as a research visitor at Princeton University, as a Rockefeller Fellow in 1932-33 and Procter Fellow in 1934-35. In 1936, Coxeter received an invitation from Sam Beatty at the University of Toronto offering him an assistant professorship there. His father, foreseeing the coming war, advised him to go. He remained in Toronto for the rest of his life. In the Second World War, Coxeter was asked by the American government to work in Washington as a code-breaker. He accepted, but then backed out, partly because of his pacifist views and partly for aesthetic reasons: "The work didn't really appeal to me," he explained; "it was a different sort of mathematics." Coxeter's best-known works include The Real Projective Plane (1955); Introduction to Geometry (1961); Regular Polytopes (1963); Non-Euclidian Geometry (1965); and Geometry Revisited (with S L Greitzer, 1967). He also published a famous work on group presentations, Generators and Relations for Discrete Groups (written jointly with W O J Moser, 1957). A gaunt, bird-like, ascetic-looking man, Coxeter attributed his longevity to his vegetarianism, a daily exercise regime of 50 press-ups, a nightly cocktail of Kahlua, peach schnapps and soya milk, and an abiding fascination with his subject. Despite, or perhaps because of, his appreciation of the aesthetics of mathematics, he never used a calculator or computer and wrote all his papers in pencil so that he could go back and correct them. He travelled to work by bus and could often be seen wandering around the university campus carrying a pineapple, which he used in his classes to illustrate natural symmetry. His students adored him, though they were sometimes surprised by his other-worldliness. When a female student announced that she would not be attending one of their regular meetings because she was about to give birth, he gave her a complex 50-page draft of a paper for her to look through if she "had nothing else to do in the labour room". Coxeter served as president of the Canadian Mathematical Society (1962-3); as vice president of the American Mathematical Society (1968); and as president of the International Congress of Mathematicians in Vancouver in 1974. He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of London in 1950 and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada in 1948; he was a foreign member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He was appointed a Companion of the Order of Canada in 1997. On his 90th birthday that year, Coxeter was presented with Firmament, a sculpture by the British sculptor John Robinson, illustrating a geometrical progression Coxeter had discovered, whereby spheres of certain diameters are mutually tangent. Donald Coxeter married, in 1936, Hendrina Brouwer, who died in 1999; they had a son and a daughter, Susan, who looked after her father after her mother's death and accompanied him to mathematical conferences. Last July, after Coxeter had given a talk at a conference in Budapest, she commented: "To think we've come all this way to talk about circles touching circles when there are so many more important things going on in the world. Dad would hate to be equated with Elvis Presley, but Elvis gave people some moments of joy, happiness, inspiration. And if that's what Dad's work does for these people, that's wonderful. Personally," she added, "I get more from Elvis Presley." © Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2003. Terms & Conditions of reading. Commercial information. Privacy Policy. --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:26:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gerardo, See http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html Scroll down to "Electric Power" (Please note that this information was current as of Feb 2003) See also http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Garcia" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:56 AM Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General > >From: David Lane > >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Elctric Grid Status - In General > >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:07:26 -0800 > > or vote to replace Irak's electric grid with hidrogen produced electricity > > is there a report of the actual state of Irak's grid? > > Gerardo García > Madrid, Spain > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:28:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 7:22 AM Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > Wow! What a resource! Thanks! > > So, basically, all the talk about Jena over the years has > been unfounded. The Zeiss dome is not geodesic, because one > third of the struts are not chords of great circles. They > are actually small circle chords. Is this your > understanding? > > I also notice some septagons in to structure, not just > pentagons and hexagons. > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Dick, > > > > See > > > http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?ns > > ections=41 > > > > especially # 761 & 765. > > > > This is from Wong's MIT thesis which is online. There's > > a TON of > > interesting material if one takes the time to look at > > each scan, a lot of it > > not available anywhere else! > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:29 AM > > Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > > > > > Joe > > > > > > This is an important distinction. Do you have the link > > or > > > page number to the passage with this expanation? > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > > > Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel > > rings > > > > which induced > > > > hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore > > inducing > > > > Japanese lantern > > > > foldability. The triangulated great circle > > (geodesic) > > > > method has no such > > > > flaw. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:49:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:20:57 +0000 >asfor"IndianSmugglers," Imust nothave read that >in_Critical Path_, but alot of that stuff comes >from Sir Arnold of Vanderbilt U. > were you also referring to the book, _1421_, >about Junks a-came to Amerigo Vespucci Land? what is life for if you have not read Fuller's everything_i_know_4 ? I should be the archbishop on fuller credits: "have you passed Syner 1, 2, 3, 4?" this is from everythin i know number four, real life surpasses friction ******* begins xtract And I've been as I said to you last time a great deal in Africa and in South Africa and the South East African Coast I really feel very powerfully what I'm telling you about. The Mombasa, the there was a Professor at the head of the architectural department at Capetown, Thornton White, when I was invited to go there in 1958. He was an architect who had been trained, first he went to Oxford and then he went to Harvard a cultural man. And Thornton White told me that after, just the end of World War II, the English were spending a great deal of money as yet, guarding the East Coast of Africa here against smuggling. There was enormous smugglings going on on the Indian Ocean. The British had decided at the time of World War II that the British Empire was all over. I think, historically, the people of England will get very great credit for, as far as I know, it's the first really top sovereignty that has ever really deliberately taken themselves apart. They assumed that they really were through. I talked to some of their leading statesmen as they were going to, coming into World War II and they said that this was going to happen. And they really deliberately pulled back, and pulled back, and pulled back. They've not really been pushed out, but they did absolutely voluntarily as a basic this chapter of history is all over. At any rate, they were wondering whether to keep on looking out for this smuggling, so they had then, their Navy ships for years were used to prevent the smuggling. And Thorton White, my architectural friend, had been born in the island of Mauritius, here in the Indian Ocean here it is and he had done architectural town planning for the island of Mauritius. Because of his familiarity with this Indian Ocean area, he was made, designated by the English government, to look into the matter of whether it would be wise for the English to keep on trying to stop smuggling to protect the businesses they had here, or not. and so, he, in the monsoon seas, the ships that cross the Indian Ocean come down here and at Mombasa they beach them out and clean them, clean their bottoms and so forth and get them ready to go back this way. It's an annual thing, going with the winds. And the whole so the big fleet of the Indian Ocean, dhows, comes in there. So Thorton White went there at the time when there would be the highest concentration. When he got there, he said that he was taken to meet three or four of the top dhow captains, and it turned out that one that seemed to be there as far as they seemed to have an Admiral he was the Admiral of their fleet. And Thorton White, I want you to remember that he had been to Oxford and to Harvard, and he had experienced what we call culture at any rate. Thorton White said to me that these dhow captains that he met the leading ones were the most cultured human beings he had ever met anywhere around the world. He said there was nothing to compare to them. And he was astonished at their knowledge! They said to him that there was a curve in human affairs, these curves of acceleration, and it gets then finally to a peak, and then where there is a fall-off, there is a shoulder form, and it really is a very constant curve nature has shown here. When something stops, it doesn't stop right away, there is a fall off. And they said, to their own satisfaction, they had actually been trading across the Indian Ocean, their forebears, their law and their knowledge of the sea, one captain to another, that they had been doing this for l0,000 years. And they said, here's a curve of 10,000 years, and if your the English can stop us, the deceleration curve would take 300 years, so you might as well tell them that. He said, incidentally, when he arrived there they knew he was coming, and they knew all about him. The underground had it very clear and they put on an exposition for him that showed him so he went back and told the English they might as well give it up, and they did give up that East Coast work. But, in my, of greatest interest to me, Thorton was deeply convinced of their, that they had really good reason to believe that they had been navigating for at least l0,000 years. And when we get to finding there is an extraordinary culture 15,000 years ago, it would be right on that route. It gets to be very interesting. ********** xtract ends Gerardo García Madrid, Spain _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:12:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Donald Coxeter Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.math.utoronto.ca/news/coxeter.html http://isomorphisms.org/archives/00000316.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:42:21 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: ANSWERS - Re: Are you a Design Scientist? In-Reply-To: <20030307161150.22341.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Researcher's notes: Thanks to everyone who responded to my questionnaire! ALL THREE OF YOU deserve big thanks for advancing the field, as it were. Someone suggested I post the responses I got, so all of the answers are below, without attribution. So, the data suggests that a very few subscribers to this list actually consider themselves design scientists, or have the time or inclination to respond to basic questions about the field, per se. My hunch is otherwise, so I do still welcome any further suggestions about this area, including how better to solicit relevant and useful information from those I aspire to call my colleagues. Perhaps there's a book that will explain how Bucky paid his rent early in his career? Anyone got any suggestions on that? I know he was broke when he started, and I guess he later had income from books and design contracts, etc, but how did he support his family at the outset of his career as a Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Scientist? This is the type of information I need if I am to get to a place where I can focus my efforts on making sense, rather than making money. Surely it doesn't take much to anticipate the requirements of some sort of solvency. Thanks again to ALL THREE respondents ! ~David Lane QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: Q: Are you a Design Scientist? ~ Yes, I consider myself a design scientist. I have a business which involves design (as do all businesses); I get an income. Q: What is the common name for your work? ~ President of the (small) business; inventor, tinkerer. ~ My industry is shelter Q: What prompted you to choose this type of occupation? ~ Fate plus the sense that this work might lead in the direction of greenhouse dome development (So far still a hope). Q: How do you feel about this occupation now? ~ It doesn't seem to have much to do with greenhouse dome development, but its interesting, and seems to involve some worthwhile issues, not specifically architectural. Q: Can you describe a typical day at work? What kind of hours do you work? ~ I sit in front of a computer much of the time, writing and reading emails. I work somewhat irregular hours. There is not a clear delineation between "work" and "non-work". Q: What aspect of the work do you enjoy the most? ~ All sorts of things: good communications, successful solutions to problems Q: What are some of the major challenges that you have had to overcome? ~ Getting up in the morning. Keeping the faith. Q: What are the aspects of the work that you enjoy the least? ~ Being stuck in one mindset while having to deal with something else. Q: What are some of the typical characteristics of the clients you serve? ~ Salt of the earth, mostly; fairly simple and straightforward as opposed to some of these weird characters ~ Everyone on the planet, at once. Q: What do you believe is the need for this type of occupation in the future? ~ Lots of possibilities. But to go back to an earlier question, the dome greenhouse visualization is associated with peace and plenty. (Is that why its so elusive?) ~ Planetary survival. Q: Can you give me an idea of average salaries and benefits initially, after two years, and after five years? ~ Plenty of money! Never enough money! ~ Making money and making sense are mutually exclusive, someone said. Q: What skills are essential for success in this occupation? ~ Learning how to be supportive of women. ~ Read and understand as much of Synergetics 1 & 2 as possible. ~ Saturate yourself in the sciences. Biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, sociology, anthropology, etc. Through learning across these areas you will begin to see patterns that those who are specialists won't see due to the narrow world they work within. Dick's right though about synergetic geometry. It's what made Bucky effective, as well as any of us. Why? Because it's what nature uses to design atoms, lobsters, and galaxies. Q: Which local and national educational institutions provide the best training? ~ University of the Streets. I had a hard time in school. Q: What are the programs? ~ Making mistakes, recovering ~ None. Q: How long does it take to become qualified? ~ Everyone's qualified at birth. ~ You were born qualified. See the world as you did as a child. Q: Can the studies be completed on a part-time basis? ~ There are always temptations Q: What do you think are the costs? ~ Life itself. You keep trying as long as you can. Q: If self-employ route: What kind of capital do you think I will need to set myself up? ~ This is tricky. I could say that all you really need is love. But I was born with many advantages, cultural, intellectual, artistic. I really can't speak for others. My impression is that if you can get in the door, and keep your eyes open, you'll usually do OK. Q: Is there anything else I should be aware of? ~ I think you're on the right track. Asking people to talk about themselves, without any selfish motives, is a very worthwhile thing to do. Thanks. ~ Beware quincy. But don't necessarily dismiss him. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:44:34 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Bauersfeld MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii See page 756 for the rooftop Jena dome at: http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/ 0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 I can see why people thought this was composed of great circle. But a heptagon is clearly visible in the lower picture directly above the center-left steelworker. That means it is one of the other domes- lamella, Schwedler, or diamatic. See: http://www.surrey.ac.uk/eng/research/ems/ssrc/ intro.htm#taught%20programmes Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:41:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Favorite Answer Re: Are you a Design Scientist? In-Reply-To: <2BB25FA0-66CD-11D7-B6F0-00039366933E@zenciti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the way, this one was my personal favorite. > Q: Can the studies be completed on a part-time basis? > ~ There are always temptations ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:54:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Domes Database Comments: To: wanb1i@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Baker Econ-O-Dome Owner Dear Mr Baker, I recently added to my website from my files a list of domes in every country and USA state. See: http://buckminster.info/Index/Dome-Dt.htm For example, click on "C" http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-C.htm and then click on "California" http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-California.htm Or click on "J" and see a list for Japan http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-J.htm My lists are far from complete, but it is the best that I could do. They have not been field verified. Please feel free to use the information any way you wish. It is NOT copyrighted. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: FW: Domes Database > From: jmr > Date: 2003.04.04.22.14 > > Domers, > > Today I got this message from Joe Baker of the Dome_Living Yahoo > group. Some of you might want to participate. If so, remember to > contact Joe directly, as he is not a DomeHome subscriber. > > jmr > -- > Forwarded Message > ---------- > From: "Joe Baker" > Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:35:39 -0500 > To: > Subject: Domes Database > > Ladies & Gentlemen; > > I am a Dome Owner (Econ-O-Dome) and I am trying to get financing on my dome. > I'm sure you are aware how difficult that is. The Dome Lady has indicated > that she can get me financed, but I need 2 comparables within 65 miles that > have sold in the last 2 years. Now that, by itself, is a challenge. I think > it is in everyone's best interest to create a database of domes around the > country. Since the most difficult part of building a dome is getting it > financed, this would make your job of selling the dome much easier. I am > certain that once your product is sold and built, there is very little > competitive displacement that can occur, so I would expect the benefits to > far outweigh the detriments. > > We at the Yahoo Group "Dome_Living" are putting together a database for this > purpose. If you have a database of your customers, and are willing to > provide the information, here is the information I would need (preferably in > "CSV" format). > > Name: > > Street Address (not PO Boxes): > > City: State: Zip: > > Manufacturer: > > Appraised Value: Date Sold/Purchased/Financed: > > Photo Front: > Photo Rear: > > If you feel uncomfortable about providing this information, would you please > inform your customers about what we are doing and how they can get in touch > with us if they should choose to participate. > > Thanx; > > Joe Baker > Voice: 540-261-1392 > > Fax: 540-261-1382 > > E-Mail: wanb1i@earthlink.net > Dome_Living@yahoogroups.com > -- > End Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:21:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: World Data Profile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable World Data Profile for thr years 1997, 2000, 2001 from the World Bank: http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPProfile.asp?SelectedCountry=3DWLD= &CCODE=3DWLD&CNAME=3DWorld&PTYPE=3DCP -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 06:37:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: World Data Profile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 30 trillion/6 billion gives about $5000 per person per year. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > World Data Profile for thr years 1997, 2000, 2001 from > the World Bank: > > http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPProfile.asp? SelectedCountry=WLD&CCODE=WLD&CNAME=World&PTYPE=CP > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:37:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Donald Coxeter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the quoted dedication o'Bucky to Coxeter, was supposed to get the would-be geometers to *read* any of his elementary texts, such as _Geometry Revisited with that Greitzer (sp.?) guy. anyway, every one should peruse _The Real Projective Plain_ (before it dies .-) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:43:00 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: ANSWERS - Re: Are you a Design Scientist? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed duh, what makes you think that he was broke "when he started," just because he was at one time, or another (such as when he was thinking about offing Guinea Pig B, whose business with bricks had crapped-out) ?? I mean, the guy was honorably dyscharged from the Navy, a captain of his own ship at the least, and came from a well-to-do family of Boston Brahmins (he'd have been the 5th Gen. of Hahvahd graduates, and anyway got his honorary doctorate). thus quoth: Perhaps there's a book that will explain how Bucky paid his rent early in his career? Anyone got any suggestions on that? I know he was broke when he started, and I guess he later had income from books and design contracts, etc, but how did he support his family at the outset of his career as a Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Scientist? This --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:02:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you're making **** "up" -- again. there's nothing unusual about the Zeiss dome, being fully trigonated, other than its "craft" method of design: you can see that the GCs are actually interrupted at several places. I doubt if it is one of the following, although I haven't seen them, yet. thus quoth: See page 756 for the rooftop Jena dome at: http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/ 0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 I can see why people thought this was composed of great circle. But a heptagon is clearly visible in the lower picture directly above the center-left steelworker. That means it is one of the other domes- lamella, Schwedler, or diamatic. See: http://www.surrey.ac.uk/eng/research/ems/ssrc/ intro.htm#taught%20programmes --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:36:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: ANSWERS - Re: Are you a Design Scientist? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, thanks, I guess. Does something make you think he was independently wealthy? On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 10:43 AM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > duh, what makes you think that he was broke > "when he started," just because he was at one time, > or another (such as when he was thinking > about offing Guinea Pig B, whose business with bricks > had crapped-out) ?? > I mean, the guy was honorably dyscharged > from the Navy, a captain of his own ship at the least, and > came from a well-to-do family of Boston Brahmins > (he'd have been the 5th Gen. of Hahvahd graduates, > and anyway got his honorary doctorate). > > thus quoth: > Perhaps there's a book that will explain how Bucky paid his rent early > in his career? Anyone got any suggestions on that? I know he was > broke when he started, and I guess he later had income from books and > design contracts, etc, but how did he support his family at the outset > of his career as a Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Scientist? This > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:36:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Marine Domes Comments: To: Trevor Blake MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor, My first thought is to contact the National Technical information Service. http://www.ntis.gov/ Ask them about "Final Report: A Study of Shelter Logistics for Marine Corps Aviation", June 1955 by Henry C Lane. (It won't show up in their online search feature because it currently only goes back until 1970.) Here's the Table of Contents & a pic of the cover: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-FinalReportAStudyShelterLogisticM arineCorpAviation.htm There was also an Informal Report and an Interim Report in 1954. Surprisingly, the title & author don't show up in a Library of Congress search!? Not in the University of California library collections also! You might try contacting the US Marine Corps. http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/hqmcmain.nsf/frontpage Since they produced the report, you may be able to get a copy from them. Another thought: Maybe the Bucky Archives at Stanford would provide you with a copy http://dynaweb.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/ Please let me know if you have any success. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Blake" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Marine Domes > > Fuller always stated that his domes were an industrial artifact, not a > hobby home. The only time I know of that domes were tested on the > industrial level is when the US Marines did their research. > > I would like to read some source material on the Marine dome tests. I > have found all there is to find online, and seek the actual publications > of the time. > > Do you have any suggestions on how I can find such things? > > Thank you, > > - Trevor > > -- > Post Office Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA > http://www.box2321.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:54:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Please Contact Comments: To: Madamstephanie@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephanie Green, VP Old Man River Community & Economic Development Corp East St Louis, IL, USA Dear Ms Green, Unfortunately, I don't believe I have ever met you or Prof Pollock. But = I do have a few questions: What is the address of your temporary office? What is the address of your headquarters that is being repaired? What is the address of the existing Dome Center? Do you have a website? I am especially interested in your library. Can = it be searched online? Do you have any brochures or historical documents available for sale? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Madamstephanie@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:47 PM Subject: Please Contact Greetings from Stephanie Green, Vice President of Bucky's Old Man = River Community and Economic Development Corporation of East Saint = Louis, Illinois. First, I wonder do you remember me , and Professor Richard Pollock who = is the President of Old Man River. Well how have you been and what are = you doing these days? I am contacting everyone we know to tell them that = Old Man River has a temporary office set up until we can get our = headquaters repaired in East St. Louis. And we are planning to rehab the existing dome center and a new = structure in the city that will provide tourist information about the = work of Bucky as it relates to the designing of the proposed dome city = that is to be built on the riverfront and his other work which has been = maintained in our library since 1973.=20 Please contact me at my Saint Louis, Missouri office 1-314-733-0100 = during the week 9am-8pm. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:08:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricirt Grid Update-Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Canada exported about 38 bkwh of electricity (gross) to the United = States in 2001, mostly from Quebec, Ontario, and New Brunswick to New = England and New York. Smaller volumes are exported from British Columbia = and Manitoba to Washington state, Minnesota, California, and Oregon. = There is considerable reciprocity between the Canadian and U.S. power = markets, as the United States also exports smaller volumes of = electricity to Canada (18 bkwh in 2001). " http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/canada.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:20:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Armenia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Iran and Armenia already have linked their electricity grids, allowing = for power sales in both directions driven by seasonal differences in = demand between the two countries. In summer, Armenia exports its power = to Iran and gets it back in winter. Armenia also supplies some of its = surplus seasonal electricity to Georgia. Closer ties with Iran could = give Armenia an additional source of electricity as Iran, Turkmenistan, = and Armenia explore whether their power grids can be linked. Armenia = could receive electricity from Turkmenistan via Iran's energy system at = less than the price of power produced by its own power stations." http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/caucasus.html#ARMENIA -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:56:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Colombia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Colombia has three electricity interconnections with Venezuela and one = with Ecuador. " "The Colombian electricity sector continues to face serious challenges. = Repeated attacks on electric infrastructure by rebel separatist groups = are straining the system. Grid interconnections have been blown up, = leaving the country divided into several, smaller grids and preventing = repair crews from reconnecting the fragments. Plans to connect = Colombia's Atlantic Coast and its capital city, Bogota, by transmission = cable have been put on hold. After the February 2002 end to peace talks, = attacks increased further. " http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/colombia.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:01:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Congo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Congo is a net electricity importer, purchasing approximately = one-fourth of its requirements from the Democratic Republic of Congo." http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/congo.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:21:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Cote d'Ivoire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Cote d'Ivoire is a leading proponent of the development of the West = African Power Pool (WAPP). The WAPP was formed by an agreement between = ECOWAS Energy Ministers in November 1999. Although the formal structure = and operational agreements for the pool have yet to be determined, it is = envisioned that the WAPP will interconnect the power networks of all the = mainland ECOWAS nations. Cote d'Ivoire is currently tied to Ghana, Togo = and Benin through one interconnection, and a link to Burkina Faso is = currently under construction as well. Additional connections to Mali and = Guinea are being studied. At a summit in Ghana in April 2002, it was = announced that the ambitious project still needs to secure at least $10 = billion in financing over the next fifteen years if the project is to be = completed. It is hoped that most of the funding will come form the New = Partnership for African Development (NEPAD). The U.S. Federal Energy = Regulatory Commission (FERC) also signed a deal that links the Indiana = Public Utilities Regulatory Commission to the WAPP project." http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/cdivoire.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:27:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Czech Republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Electricity export have become increasingly important for the Czech = Republic over the past few years, peaking in the first six months of = 2001, when the country exported 6.69 terawatt-hours of electricity. The = majority of the electricity was imported by Germany. However, since then = exports to Germany have fallen by over 30% as German utility E. On = canceled its contract with CEZ on July 1, 2001, due to concerns about = the Temelin nuclear power plant and pressure by environmentalists over = cheap electricity from polluting power plants being "dumped" on the EU. = However, E. On has signalled that it may again become a buyer of Czech = electricity by purchasing only non-nuclear-produced electricity. In = November 2001, CEZ, along with coal producers Severoceske Doly, Mostecka = Uhelna Spolecnost, and Sokolovska Uhelna, and trading company Carbounion = Bohemia, formed a new company called Coal Energy that will be = essentially a marketing company for CEZ's coal-produced electric power. = Coal Energy is looking to expand electricity exports to Serbia, Romania, = Slovenia, and other Balkan countries." http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/visegrad.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:34:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Electricity Grid Update-Ecuador MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Privately-financed projects undertaken to augment the electricity = infrastructure include constructing a 230-kilovolt line to link Milagro = and Machala on the Pacific coast, linking the northern and southern = parts of the country, and linking a new hydropower station into the = central coastal grid. These projects should improve existing = interconnections with Colombia and make possible interconnection = projects with Peru.=20 In September 2001, energy ministers from Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, and = Venezuela signed an agreement on integrating their countries' power = grids. Along with Bolivia, these countries make up the Comunidad Andina = de Naciones (CAN) group. In November 2002, Peru announced that it would = begin exporting electricity, via a new $15 million, 120-MW transmission = line, to Ecuador beginning in late 2004. Also, in December 2002, Ecuador = and Colombia completed work on a 260-MW, 131-mile power line connecting = those two countries, although startup has now been delayed until January = 30 due to system integration glitches. " http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/ecuador.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:38:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Coxeter Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NyTimes does Coxeter obit. Search google news. Excerpts: "Dr. Harold Scott MacDonald Coxeter, a mathematician who was hailed as one of the foremost geometricians of his generation and whose ideas inspired the drawings of M. C. Escher and influenced the architecture of R. Buckminster Fuller, died on March 31 in his home in Toronto. He was 96." "Dr. Coxeter was also friendly with R. Buckminster Fuller, who cited the influence of Dr. Coxeter's ideas on the development of the geodesic dome. Mr. Fuller dedicated his book "Synergetics" to Dr. Coxeter." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:15:00 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Electricirt Grid Update-Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed is that supposed to be "billion-kilowatt-houts," instead of gigawatt-hours?... I'd be interested in the *ration* of our electricity that is represented by the net import of 20GWH. several things in today's papers are relevant, including the sanitized obit of the Pennzoil Watergate moneybags! note that the Canadian economy has not had any where near of a recession as the US, also due to vast sales of natural gas, MtBE etc. to the USA (see my sig). thus quoth: "Canada exported about 38 bkwh of electricity (gross) to the United States in 2001, mostly from Quebec, Ontario, and New Brunswick to New England and New York. Smaller volumes are exported from British Columbia and Manitoba to Washington state, Minnesota, California, and Oregon. There is considerable reciprocity between the Canadian and U.S. power markets, as the United States also exports smaller volumes of electricity to Canada (18 bkwh in 2001). " http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/canada.html --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:53:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Doming the purdue campus Comments: To: "James R. Longster, III" Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mr Longster, Please see http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-C.htm (scroll down to = "Cities"). I think that the most effective way to persuade any group of = the advantages of enclosing any large area--say 3,000-6,000' in = diameter--with a dome is to produce an economic feasibility study = detailing all the benefits of such a structure. Surprisingly, no such = study has ever been done--to the best of my knowledge. I'm quite sure = that the various economic pluses would far outweigh the costs. I've = always wondered why such a study has never been done as a student = project by some Economics Department of a University--possibly in = conjunction with the students of the Architecture and Engineering = Departments. Fuller's two architectural partners were/are Mr Sadao = http://buckminster.info/Index/Sa-Scg.htm and Mr Zung http://buckminster.info/Index/Zf-Zz.htm If Purdue University were to be enclosed in such a tensegrity dome, it = would be the first in the world--and the largest dome in the world. In = my view there is no reason why such a project can not be done. I see no = technical or economic barriers--just lack of imagination. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James R. Longster, III=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Doming the purdue campus Hello;=20 My name is Jim Longster and I am A fifty year old junior at Purdue = University, and now a member of a communications (speech) class who have = to come up with a proposal to improve the campus in some manor. I = convinced the 5 members of my group that we should put the whole campus = (probably 1-2sq. mi.) under a relatively low dome. I know that this = would be a monumentally expensive project, but Purdue is one of the = preeminent Engineering schools in the nation and a project like this = would get them the kind of attention that they want plus all the cost = (in the long run) benefits that a dome could provide.=20 Soooo what I would like from you are the names of architectural firms = that may have the guts and ingenuity to take on a project of this = nature. Even though this is a project that is NOT being thought of by = the University I would appreciate all the help that you could give, = because if this goes well, I HAVE THE GUTS AND WILLINGNESS TO MAKE AN = IDIOT OF MYSELF, and I Will propose it to Purdue. Thank you for your = trouble Jim Longster=20 PS Just imagine it!=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:29:31 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: observatory dome Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, I am forwarding this message in the hope that someone on this list can offer advice. Regards, Paul Taylor ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > I am interested in building a 9' -10' diameter 1/2 - 5/8 > geodesic dome of cardboard to be used as an indoor astronomical observatory. > The frequency needs to be > fairly high so the stars can be projected on the surface > from below. Do you offer a plan for such a dome? > > Murphy@CARDINALNEWMANSCHOOL.ORG > > Stuart A. Murphy, PhD > Cardinal Newman School > 14333 Fern Dr. > Houston, TX 77079 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:40:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Please Contact Comments: To: Madamstephanie@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Stephanie, I think you are mistaking me for Donald G. Moore; see = http://buckminster.info/Index/Moe-Morr.htm (scroll down to "Moore"). I = know for sure that I have never been to Aspen, Co; that I would = remember. And I know for sure that I have never been to SIU-C, though I = would love to rummage through their library. Do you have a list of the = Bucky-related items in your library? You may be able to contact Don Moore thru the Buckminster Fuller = Institute http://www.bfi.org/index.html Sorry I'm not the guy you are looking for. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Madamstephanie@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 7:05 AM Subject: Re: Please Contact Hi Joe, Well it has been a while, Richard Pollock said he met you in Aspen at = a conference some years ago. I thought you attended the 2 Synergetic = Conferences, in particular the one which was held at Southern Illinois = University at Edwardsville, the other one was held in Canada. Well = please call us for more information and so far as the library, it is not = on the internet yet. It is all the history we have maintained on Bucky = and work of others who are his business associates since the 1960's. = Which consists of books, blueprints, videos, cassette tapes and much = more. I will email you a day when we all will be together to call you. = Can you please email us a telephone number to contact you and the time = of day to call you. I am quite sure that Prof. Pollock can refresh your = memory. We are planning a meeting at the temporary office in East St. = Louis, Illinois and will invite other organization members who are = Bucky's business associates such as Thomas Zung, Mr. Sadao, Bill Perk = and many others. We would like for you to attend this meeting also. If I did not give you my work phone number it is 1-314-733-0100. Do = call me. Thanks for responding so quickly. Stephanie Green ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:52:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: soundstage Comments: To: "Grace, Deborah" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deborah, #7 dome was never built! (Kamric/Cinergy Futuronics dome in Houston, TX) Move #s 8, 9, 10 up one notch & I'll dig out a replacement for #10. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Dagenais" To: Cc: "Clark Margolf" ; "Dan Sickafoose" Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: soundstage > Mr Moore. > The subject building was never built as the financing was oil money and in > 1981 the price of oil plummeted from $41 per barrel to $10. It was supposed > to be the same size as the long beach, spruce goose dome 415' dia and they > even had a groundbreaking ceremony in Houston in 1981. > This same spruce goose dome was used by movie studios to build enormous sets > and film many Batman and other movies between 1992 when the plane was > removed and last December when Disney filmed the ship scenes for the new > pirates of the Caribbean movie. > Today about half of the long beach dome has been converted to a Carnival > cruise lines terminal and the other half is to be used by the California > Space Camp people for their space camp. > Please feel free to call me at 800-421-2263 or 310-523-2322, ext 118, fax me > at 310-523-2380 or email me at rwd@temcor.com. or mail me at TEMCOR, 150 W > Walnut St, Gardena CA 90248, USA . See us on the web at www.temcor.com > Bob Dagenais > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:51:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Information please Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com, lorelco@pacbell.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lorin, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-California.htm for a partial list of domes in California. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: FW: Information please > > Lorin, > > I am forwarding your message to the DomeHome Email List. > There is likely someone among the subscribers who can > provide the information you need. DomeHomers, please > respond directly to Lorin's email address, as well as to > the DomeHome List. > > j m rowland, DomeHome Moderator > domehome@domegroup.org > > ---------- > From: "Lorin George" > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:31:48 -0700 > Subject: Information please > > I am a real estate appraiser in northern California and have > the challenging assignment to appraise two dome homes in > Oakland, CA. One is for a sale and the other for a > refinance. Do you know of any dome homes in this area. > They can be within a 200 mile radius of Oakland. This > information is kept confidential and no contact with the > homeowner is required. I simple take the address and access > public records to complete my reports. I can supply any > verification of my validity as an appraiser. The lenders > both require dome homes as comparables. If none are located > the loans will be denied. Your assistance will be greatly > appreciated. > Lorin George > Appraiser > 415/452-8415 > lorelco@pacbell.net > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:04:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: soundstage Comments: To: Deborah Grace Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deborah, Here's the replacement for #10: Lehigh Portland Cement Storage Facility 374' diam Union Bridge, MD, USA http://www.aldrichpr.com/TEMCOR_Files/Releases,%20Tecmor/UnionBridgeFINAL.ht ml -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Grace" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:06 PM Subject: Re: soundstage > Thanks for all the research, Joe! > > Great! > > Deborah > > > From: "Joe S Moore" > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:52:26 -0700 > > To: "Grace, Deborah" > > Cc: "List, Geodesic" > > Subject: Fw: soundstage > > > > Deborah, > > > > #7 dome was never built! (Kamric/Cinergy Futuronics dome in Houston, TX) > > > > Move #s 8, 9, 10 up one notch & I'll dig out a replacement for #10. > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Dagenais" > > To: > > Cc: "Clark Margolf" ; "Dan Sickafoose" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:46 AM > > Subject: soundstage > > > >> Mr Moore. > >> The subject building was never built as the financing was oil money and in > >> 1981 the price of oil plummeted from $41 per barrel to $10. It was > > supposed > >> to be the same size as the long beach, spruce goose dome 415' dia and they > >> even had a groundbreaking ceremony in Houston in 1981. > >> This same spruce goose dome was used by movie studios to build enormous > > sets > >> and film many Batman and other movies between 1992 when the plane was > >> removed and last December when Disney filmed the ship scenes for the new > >> pirates of the Caribbean movie. > >> Today about half of the long beach dome has been converted to a Carnival > >> cruise lines terminal and the other half is to be used by the California > >> Space Camp people for their space camp. > >> Please feel free to call me at 800-421-2263 or 310-523-2322, ext 118, fax > > me > >> at 310-523-2380 or email me at rwd@temcor.com. or mail me at TEMCOR, 150 > > W > >> Walnut St, Gardena CA 90248, USA . See us on the web at www.temcor.com > >> Bob Dagenais > >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:59:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Domes List Comments: To: Deborah Grace Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deborah, see embedded comments below: -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Deborah Grace" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: FW: Domes List > Hi Joe,=20 >=20 > I had a wonderful volunteer dig around for links to the list of domes = you > mentioned thinking it would be nice for site visitors to see what they = look > like and how they are being used. >=20 > I thought you'd like to see these, and I was also wondering if you'd = be > interested in checking the links (see below) and giving any feedback = on > them; when we have the page up, I can send you the details so you can = link > to it from your site! >=20 > Let me know what you think. >=20 > Best thoughts,=20 >=20 > Deborah > -- > Deborah Grace > Buckminster Fuller Institute >=20 > deborah@bfi.org http://www.bfi.org > 707-824 2242 707-824 2243 fax >=20 > ******* >=20 > "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. > To change something, build a new model that makes the existing > model obsolete" > -R. Buckminster = Fuller >=20 >=20 > The Buckminster Fuller Institute (BFI), a 501 (c)(3) nonprofit > organization, is a diverse group of individuals committed to a = successful > and sustainable future for 100% of humanity. Founded in 1983 and = inspired by > the design science principles pioneered by the late Buckminster = Fuller, BFI > serves as an information resource to students, educators, authors, = designers > and concerned citizens working to advance humanity's option for = success. >=20 > ---------- > From: "Michael Ray" > Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:00:08 +0000 > To: dgrace@bfi.org > Subject: Re: Domes info? >=20 > Here are all the links I could find. I was holding out for a friend of = mine > in Japan to get back to me about the first one. I was hoping that, = given its > number one status, I'd be able to find something a little more on it. = The > only one that came back totally empty was number 7 - a dome in Houston = that > must have some radically different name or something. Hope you're able = to > make something of this - if you want, I can keep digging on the ones = that > only have one or two sites... > -Michael >=20 > 1...710.....Japan....Kyosho Isle...........Fantasy Entertainment = Complex >=20 > http://www.starnetint.com/projects/gaming.htm > Above is the link to the company that built the dome - the page that = it's on > is password protected - they ask that you email them for a password. = You > should be able to obtain a media kit, some high res images, or at = least > specs from them and create a page based on the dome. At least I hope = so, > because there's nothing else out there on this one. >=20 Sent email to Starnet; no answer yet > 2...614..........".........Nagoya..................Multi-Purpose Arena >=20 > http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/engi_e/c01/c01_1_2.html > http://www.nagoya-dome.co.jp/ndindex_v4.html > NOTE: Japanese character set needed to view above site. >=20 Both links OK > 3...530......USA......Tacoma, WA.........Tacoma Dome >=20 > http://www.tacomadome.org/DomeInfo/Facts.htm > = http://www.sfo.com/~csuppes/NBA/misc/index.htm?../SeattleSonics/oldindex.= htm > http://www.tpctourism.org/page.asp?view=3D5176 >=20 Links OK; suggest adding this one: http://www.westernwoodstructures.com/TacomaDome.htm > 4...525..........".........Marquette, MI........Superior Dome, = Northern > Michigan Univ >=20 > http://newsbureau.nmu.edu/wildcats/Superiordome.html >=20 Link OK; suggest adding http://www.westernwoodstructures.com/domes.html=20 > 5...502..........".........Flagstaff, AZ..........Walkup Skydome, = Northern > Arizona Univ >=20 > http://www.nau.edu/skydome/main.html >=20 Link OK; suggest http://www.westernwoodstructures.com/NAUDome.htm >=20 > 6...440..........".........Springerville, AZ...Round Valley High = School > Stadium >=20 > http://www.slettencompanies.com/round_valley_ensphere.htm > http://www.elks.net/dome.htm#DomeInformation >=20 Links OK; suggest http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=3D2&s=3D11&x=3D1645&y=3D944= 1&z=3D12&w=3D1 (grey-scale aerial photo) > 7...430..........".........Houston, TX..........Kamric/Cinergy = Futuronics > Soundstage >=20 > No record of this anywhere... >=20 Sent email; reply indicated dome never built! Drop entry; move #s 8, 9 = & 10 up one notch. > 8...415..........".........Long Beach, CA...Former Spruce Goose Hangar >=20 > http://www.cashassociates.com/special.htm > http://www.carnival.com/featuredupdate.asp?id=3D134 > NOTE: The former hangar is now a reception area for Carnival Cruise = Terminal > in Long Beach. > http://www.queenmary.com/QMweb/html/press_releases/carnival1.html > Above website doesn't have much on the dome itself, but they've got a = couple > links to media contacts who could probably provide some excellent = current > pictures of the hangar (now baggage terminal). >=20 Links OK; suggest http://www.temcor.com/pdf/spruce_goose.pdf > 9...402....Taiwan...Mai Liao.................Formosa Plastics Storage > Facility >=20 > http://www.temcor.com/bulkstorage.htm > http://www.temcor.com/mailiao.pdf >=20 Links OK > 10..384......USA......Baton Rouge, LA..Union Tank Car Maintenance = Facility >=20 > http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2001-03-06/cover_story.html > http://www.synergeticsinc.com/bodytext/union.htm >=20 Links OK >=20 Replacement for #10: 374'...USA...Union Bridge, MD...Lehigh Portland Cement Storage Facility http://www.aldrichpr.com/TEMCOR_Files/Releases,%20Tecmor/UnionBridgeFINAL= .html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:22:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Joe Clinton on RanDomes Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, Examples of Nature's Geometry are available online in COLOR! See Kurt Stueber's website: http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/stueber_library.html Especially Haeckel's drawings in color http://caliban.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/natur.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Joe Clinton on RanDomes > New location for Joe Clinton's RanDome report: > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=8 > > Some new pictures, too. > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:41:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Domes in Nature-Haeckel Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A sample of Ernst Haeckel's drawings on Kurt Stueber's website: http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/icons/Tafel_001= _medium.jpg http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/icons/Tafel_061= _medium.jpg http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/icons/Tafel_090= _medium.jpg -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Asymmetric Geodesics Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bucky devised a method of dealing with asymmetric (or stretched) = geodesics; he called it Constant Zenith Projection: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosMapConstantZenith.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:03:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Joe Clinton on RanDomes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe Yes. Do you have the book Art Forms in Nature by him? It is fantastic! I'm gonna tatoo one of them on me. I'll send a pic when that day comes. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > Examples of Nature's Geometry are available online in > COLOR! See Kurt > Stueber's website: > > http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/stueber_library.html > > Especially Haeckel's drawings in color > http://caliban.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/natur.html > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:37 PM > Subject: Re: Joe Clinton on RanDomes > > > > New location for Joe Clinton's RanDome report: > > > > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=8 > > > > Some new pictures, too. > > > > Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Joe Clinton on RanDomes MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dick, Wonderful links -- Thanks! Dave Watkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:22 PM > Dick, > > Examples of Nature's Geometry are available online in COLOR! See Kurt > Stueber's website: > > http://www.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/stueber_library.html > > Especially Haeckel's drawings in color > http://caliban.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/haeckel/kunstformen/natur.html > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:34:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Asymmetric Geodesics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed awesome diagram; now, if we can just configure ameaning for it (and the claim, thereby .-) thus quoth: Bucky devised a method of dealing with asymmetric (or stretched) geodesics; he called it Constant Zenith Projection: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosMapConstantZenith.htm [NB: an "we told you, so," in my sig of about 2 years' standing (tlansrated into French, recently, by me, however badly.] http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/canada.html --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 21:45:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: New Dome Manufacturer Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hadrian Tridi-Systems Vista, CA, USA http://www.tridipanel.com/Currentprojects/Dome/Dome1.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:04:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: eBayISAPI Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geodesic Math & How to Use It up for bid at Ebay right now! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3513907960&category=3D= 11446 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:27:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: 2307057 Comments: To: "Meisen, Peter" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oct 17, 2002, BBC News article about Africa's long range electricity = grid plans: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2307057.stm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:05:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: 10-EndEnergyDistribGrid Comments: To: "Codiga, Chris" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, Here's a brief summary of what the Global Electricity Grid is all about: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/10-EndEnergyDistribGrid.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:13:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: National Electricity Grids-Pics Comments: To: "Meisen, Peter" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Africa: = http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38320000/gif/_38320295_africa_elec2_30= 0map.gif Argentina: = http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/argentinamap.gif Armenia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/armegrid.jpg Azerbaijan: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/azergrid.jpg Belize: http://www.fortisinc.com/images/grid.gif Bolivia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/bolgrid.gif Bulgaria: http://www.fe.doe.gov/international/images/bulgrid.gif Cambodia: = http://www.aseanenergy.org/energy_sector/electricity/cambodia/national_gr= i_ntwks.gif Central America: = http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/CenAm.big.jpg Chile: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/siclarge.gif http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/Chile_map.jpg Croatia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/crotgrid.jpg Czech Republic: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/czgrid.jpg Equador: http://www.fe.doe.gov/international/images/ecu-grid.gif Estonia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/estgrid.jpg France: http://www.platts.com/features/eurogasandpower/France_grid.gif Hungary: http://www.fe.doe.gov/international/images/hungrid.jpg Ireland: http://www.iei.ie/papers/imagepages/elecricimag.html http://www.esb.ie/img/about_esb/transmission1.gif Lithuania: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/litgrid.jpg Mexico: = http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/Mexico_Infrastructure.g= if Paraguay: = http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/paraguay_trans_map2.jpg= Peru: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/pergrid2.jpg Poland: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/polgrid.jpg Scandinavia: = http://www.abb.com/GLOBAL/ABBZH/ABBZH262.nsf/viewunid/1C84E882A55D6D25C12= 56C14002D8851/$file/Nordel+map+links+to+continent+607x865.jpg Slovakia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/slovgrid.gif Slovenia: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/slvngrd2.gif South Africa: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/sa-grid.gif Southeast Asia: = http://www.aseanenergy.org/energy_sector/electricity/images/apg_only.jpg United States: http://www.lippmannforcongress.us/grid%20map.jpg Uruguay: = http://www.platts.com/features/LatinAmericanpower/uruguay_interconnection= s.jpg Venezuela: http://fossil.energy.gov/international/images/ven-grid.gif -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:23:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Asymmetric Geodesics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I know -- let's let Dick tell us what it means! thus quoth: Bucky devised a method of dealing with asymmetric (or stretched) geodesics; he called it Constant Zenith Projection: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosMapConstantZenith.htm [NB: an "we told you, so," in my sig of about 2 years' standing (tlansrated into French, recently, by me, however badly.] --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:47:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Asymmetric Geodesics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bucky explains this at: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s11/p1000.html --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I know -- let's let Dick tell us what it means! > > thus quoth: > Bucky devised a method of dealing with asymmetric (or > stretched) geodesics; > he called it Constant Zenith Projection: > > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosMapConstantZenith.htm > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Former Spruce Goose Dome Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The former Spruce Goose geodesic dome hangar reopened yesterday as the = new Long Beach Cruise Terminal for Carnival Cruise Lines: http://www.carnival.com/featuredupdate.asp?id=3D134 http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose.jpg http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose-bw.jpg http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SprucGoosInsid.jpg -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:01:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Former Spruce Goose Dome In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do you know what happened to the plane? Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > The former Spruce Goose geodesic dome hangar reopened > yesterday as the new Long Beach Cruise Terminal for > Carnival Cruise Lines: > > http://www.carnival.com/featuredupdate.asp?id=134 > > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose.jpg > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose-bw.jpg > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SprucGoosInsid.jpg > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:13:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Former Spruce Goose Dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick et al, It now resides at Evergreen Air Venture Museum in McMinnville, OR, USA: http://www.aero.com/museums/evergreen/evergrn.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Former Spruce Goose Dome > Do you know what happened to the plane? > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > The former Spruce Goose geodesic dome hangar reopened > > yesterday as the new Long Beach Cruise Terminal for > > Carnival Cruise Lines: > > > > http://www.carnival.com/featuredupdate.asp?id=134 > > > > > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose.jpg > > > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SpruceGoose-bw.jpg > > > http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-Hangar-SprucGoosInsid.jpg > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:22:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: [geodesic dome homes] Digest Number 160 Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forward from the Yahoo group "Geodesic Dome Homes": -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "C A Timko" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [geodesic dome homes] Digest Number 160 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You cannot reply to this message via email because you have chosen not > to disclose your email address to the group. > > To reply: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geodesicdomehomes/post?act=reply&messageNum=62 2 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Hello All! I have found that Cendant Mortgage is very willing to mortgage or refinace. They are located in NJ and have been very helpful to us. The are affiliated with Century 21 real estate services. I didn't have any trouble with the insurance. In fact, the premiums on the dome home are cheaper than my old 2 story victorian style 80 yr old house! However, I did have to call several insurance brokers to finally find a local agency that would cover it. They are out there! Don't give up!! Carol T. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:41:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: asymmetries Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's 3 snapshots of a ball with a triangulated spiral of circles. Any number of vertexes work, where n is greater than 3. No edge is longer than the root of 2. See bottom of page: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=8 Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:10:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Author Comments: To: reception@urbn.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sirs, Would you mind telling me who authored "We Are All Astronauts"? Also, what is the author's city and country? I would like to add this information to my Buckminster Fuller Master = Index: http://buckminster.info/Index/0-IndexTOC.htm Thank you, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:18:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: curvature in 3d, chordwise Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Date: 2003-04-14 18:41:50 PST It seems to me it is easy to account for surface curvature by using triangles instead of squares. Use the angular deficit (or excess) as the unit of curvature. Angular deficit about a vertex is positive curvature and angular excess about a vertex is negative curvature. This is discrete curvature, I think. Dick "Dave Anderson" wrote in message news:<9iYla.148975$o8.2746104@twister.tampabay.rr.com>... > Part 1 >http://www.tekcad.com/email/200303dc1 > including > What do we mean by double curvature > What is curvature > Creating a grid with double curvature using TekCAD > > Part 2 >http://www.tekcad.com/email/200304dc2 > including > Double curvature without formulas > Bezier curves and surfaces > Complex double curvatures > > Questions and exercises and Further reading sections follow each part. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:35:02 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: 4v tensegrity tetrahedron with planar strut clusters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/slv4tetraa.html I revisited some calculations I did a few years back in order to fix a problem. I was trying to design a tensegrity where cluster of four struts were exactly aligned into planes. I think I succeeded this time. I'll build a model though just to make sure. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:24:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed same ol', same ol'. thus quoth: It seems to me it is easy to account for surface curvature by using triangles instead of squares. Use the angular deficit (or excess) as the unit of curvature. Angular deficit about a vertex is positive curvature and angular excess about a vertex is negative curvature. This is discrete curvature, I think. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:58:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Comments: To: letters@latimes.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Ed.; Looked up the “New America Foundation” of Pinkerton’s new-found affiliation; sure enough, there’s at least 3 articles from “neocon” magazines about the so-called hydrogen economy. The people who promote this often fail to bother -- as in all, three articles, and Pinkerton's -- to note that the hydrogen gas has to be *generated* from other stuff, as it is mostly made from methane (or "natural gas"). Since all of the "enviro-friendly" plants of 15 years are mehane-powered, and MtBE is made from it at 11% by volume of gaso-*line*, and so forth, this might explain why Canada is doing so well, during our recession. Of course, the methane, as used in CNG and LNG vehicles, has more energy, although something has to be done with the carbon, in any case. Can the extractors of hydrogen do it, by running industrial processes in burning the carbon fraction? What is the comparison, in the first place, between the two fuels? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii QQQ- Any comment? "the "spherical excess" is really a measure of curvature" >From L.M. at scimath: "As I indicated, the very concept of area on a curved surface is analytical. Archimedes used infinitesimal methods to establish the surface area of a sphere, and such methods are necessary even to conceive of such - say I. This fact gives logical primacy to square units as a measure of curved surfaces. Please note it requires this standard and these methods to derive the results that I cited for finite spherical figures. So these reaults can hardly be said to disestablish that standard. > do the "lunes" proof > of the Pythagorean theorem (again !-) See my post of Nov 22, 1995 to the thread "What is your favorite short proof?" on sci.math. Note that the proof depends on knowing the surface area of the sphere. In terms of an unknown S you come up with S + 4*area = S/pi (A+B+C) giving area = S/4pi * ( A+B+C - pi ) Anyway, the "spherical excess" is really a measure of curvature, as can be seen by a comparison with the principle of parallel transport. It measures area on a sphere because the sphere has constant curvature. Area remains an independently defined concept. Lew Mammel, Jr." --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > same ol', same ol'. > > thus quoth: > It seems to me it is easy to account for surface > curvature > by using > triangles instead of squares. Use the angular deficit > (or > excess) as > the unit of curvature. Angular deficit about a vertex is > positive > curvature and angular excess about a vertex is negative > curvature. > This is discrete curvature, I think. >Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:29:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: unfound link Comments: To: RAS Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RAS, Oops! Try http://us.imdb.com/Title?0167720 at the Internet Movie Database. Also see this collection of links http://us.imdb.com/TUrls?MSC+0167720 I think I see the problem: Clicking on the link only uses part of the = URL; you have to paste in manually the last part (e_photos.html). The = email program chops off any line over 80 characters wide (I think) & = puts the balance on the next line. See below. Thanks, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RAS=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 1:59 AM Subject: unfound link Comes up as unfound From: "Joe S Moore" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:28:35 -0700 Time travel dome pics from the TV series "Seven Days" (1998-2001): = http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9329/SevenDays/Photos/sp= her e_photos.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- .:'':. .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at=20 http://www.hoflin.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:01:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you don't have a question. that guy's insistence upon the tetragon (skware) isn't a neccesity, if that's what you mean. for me to grok and you to have another acid flashback ... just kidding! thus quoth: --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:04:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed QncyMI@netscape.net (Brian Quincy Hutchings) wrote in message news:... >you're assuming the use of the icosahedron, >then subdividing the 20 facets (halving the edges, say, >giving 4x20 trigona for the whole "spheric"), but >the tetrahedron or octahedron can also be used. > incidentally, >when focusing upon the vertices, it makes some sense >to use the dual nomenclature, polyasteron, >which is the pure Greek for Bucky's neologism >of "polyvertexion." also, >not to use "square" and "triangle, as special >as those shapes may be, but *tetragon* and *trigon*. > >tetrasteron: four 3-way apices >hexasteron: six 4-way vertices >dodecasteron: twelve 5-way astera > >the duals, thus are >tetrahedron: four trigonal facets >hexahedron: six tetragona >dodecahedron: twelve pentagona > >ol3@webtv.net (Oscar Lanzi III) wrote in message >news:<13055-3E9833A0-585@storefull-2313.public.lawson.webtv.net>... > > Here's a goody for you all: Suppose you are building a geodesic dome >by > > putting together a large number of triangular faces. Some vertices are > > formed from six triangles, a few are formed from only five. Show that > > in a "hemispherical" structure there will be exactly six vertices of the > > five-triangle type (assuming the boundary doesn't interfere). Think > > "spherical excess". --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:41:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Gold Dome Comments: To: Byron Savage Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Byron, Because Fuller's geodesic dome patent was still in effect at that time, = anyone wanting to legally build a geodesic dome had to go through him = either directly or indirectly. Therefore the bank was built by a = licensee of Buckminster Fuller, Kaiser Aluminum Corp of Oakland, CA. =20 Please see 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' by R Buckminster = Fuller & Robert Marks, p 227 (figures 478-9). Here is part 2 of the = table of contents: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-TheDymaxionWorldOfBuckminsterFull= er-B.htm (scroll down to the "Kaiser Geodesic Domes" section) See also 'Buckminster Fuller: At Home in the Universe' page 206. Here's a pic: = http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-BankCitizensState.jpg -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Byron Savage=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: Gold Dome Citizen's State Bank ["Bank One"] dome, Oklahoma City: What is our source for proof that this is a Fuller dome? It isn't = just the Time magazine article, is it? Thanks! Byron Savage ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:40:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: asymmetries Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Three more asymmetric geodesic structures at: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action= ShowPhoto&PhotoID=130 http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action= ShowPhoto&PhotoID=131 http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action= ShowPhoto&PhotoID=132 Dick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quincy, would you comment on this? Specifically the 19.1% number. The surface area under the dome, or in contact with the ground has been omitted in both cases intentionally. Blair -------- Original Message -------- Subject: dome math Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 21:44:04 -0600 From: "The DomeHome List" Reply-To: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com From: "blair wolfram" Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:06:40 -0600 Useful formulas: Surface area of a hemisphere: 2 times pi times (radius squared). Volume of a hemisphere: [ 4/3 times pi times (radius cubed)] divided by 2. Surface area of half a cube: (length times width) plus 4 times (width times height). Volume of half a cube: height times width times length. Note: length equals width in half a cube. For a half cube: Using length of 2' and height of 1', the surface area of a half cube equals 12 square feet; the volume of a half cube equals 4 cubic feet. Surface area to volume ratio equals 3 to 1. For a hemisphere: Using radius = 1.382'; the surface area of a hemisphere equals 12 square feet; the volume of a hemisphere = 5.525 cubic feet. Surface area to volume ratio = 2.172 to 1. Both enclosures have surface area equal to 12 square feet. Create a structure that is square only in the plane of the base, and has a linear transgression of its shape (to a height equal to 1/2 its edge length) into a circle or a point only in the plane at its highest zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The surface area to volume ratio of this structure will be exactly midway between the above two ratios: 3 minus 2.172 divided by two, added to the lowest (hemisphere) ratio. For a square based dome: The surface area to volume ratio of this structure is 2.586 to 1. Surface area equals 12 square feet, volume equals 4.64 cubic feet. 2.586 divided by 2.172 = 1.191 This square based dome has a 19.1 percent greater surface area to volume ratio than a sphere. Blair .:'':. .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at http://www.hoflin.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:52:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: [geodesic dome homes] Lessons learned Comments: To: INTP10050@yahoo.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Intp10050, For Kansas domes see: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-K.htm For Missouri domes see: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Missouri.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "intp10050" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: [geodesic dome homes] Lessons learned > > I am doing a report for a college Technology class on geodesic dome > housing and while I have been able to find numerous commercial web > sites listing advantages/disadvantages, cost comparisons, energy > efficiency, etc, I really have not read anything from home owners as > to what they would do different or what they like/dislike about the > homes (i.e. "are they really as efficient as the dealer/builder told > them?") > > Also, does anyone know of any dome owners in the southeast kansas / > southwest missouri area? I am very interested in discussing > weather/climate issues regarding the geodesic domes. > > Thank you for any help that may be provided. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:56:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: geo-link Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 30-sec color movie with sound of a newspaper dome construction by 3rd & = 4th graders: http://www.henry.k12.ga.us/pges/projects/geo-link.htm Pleasant Grove Elementary School Stockbridge, GA, USA -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:20:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I don't think it's useful to have half-dome formulae: area of sphere is pi*diameter^2; circumference is pi*diameterl volume is pi*diameter^3/6. then, your "morphing" is not well-described, I'm afraid. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:45:41 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The formula for surface area of a sphere is 4 times pi times ( radius squared). The formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 times pi times ( radius cubed ). In this example we are using a half sphere. As a mathematician I asked that you comment on the 19.1% result. Blair Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I don't think it's useful to have half-dome formulae: > area of sphere is pi*diameter^2; > circumference is pi*diameterl > volume is pi*diameter^3/6. > then, your "morphing" is not well-described, > I'm afraid. > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:15:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! Djubaya, See Fuller's 'Grunch of Giants'. Here's the table of contents: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-GrunchOfGiants.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- "Djubaya" wrote in message news:g7roa.7041$JX2.464098@typhoon.sonic.net... > > "Joe S Moore" > > > They are testing out the latest do-more-with-less technology > > Who are "THEY"...??? > > I work with BFI (www.BFI.org) and have been told to visit your site > (http://buckminster.info), they say it is great... no time right now so > perhaps in the morning, over a hot cup of 'Do more with less' Espresso. > > ------------------------------------------- > > "bigpit" > > > What do you think Buckminster Fuller would say about the current > > situation? > > Here is something which he said which might be pertinent... > > "Since it is now physically and metaphysically demonstrable that the > chemical elements resources of Earth already mined or in recirculation, plus > the knowledge we now have, are adequate to the support of all humanity and > can be feasibly redesign-employed by 1985 to support all humanity at a > higher standard of living than ever before enjoyed by any human, war is now > and henceforth murder. All weapons are invalid. Lying is intolerable. All > politics are not only obsolete but lethal." > > from Synergetics Dictionary > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:30:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you use triangles instead of squares for the unit of area, the area of a sphere is 2(n-2) as in Euler's formula. N is the number of vertexes. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I don't think it's useful to have half-dome formulae: > area of sphere is pi*diameter^2; > circumference is pi*diameterl > volume is pi*diameter^3/6. > then, your "morphing" is not well-described, > I'm afraid. > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & > Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:35:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <3EA06817.1070200@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Blair Isn't it easier to figure the volumes and areas for both complete polyhedron, then divide by 2 to get the half cut version of each form? You must be correct. This is simple stuff, wouldn't you agree? Dick > From: "blair wolfram" > Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:06:40 -0600 > > Useful formulas: > Surface area of a hemisphere: 2 times pi times (radius > squared). > Volume of a hemisphere: [ 4/3 times pi times (radius > cubed)] divided by 2. > Surface area of half a cube: (length times width) plus 4 > times (width > times height). > Volume of half a cube: height times width times length. > Note: length equals width in half a cube. > > For a half cube: > Using length of 2' and height of 1', the surface area of > a half cube > equals 12 square feet; the volume of a half cube equals 4 > cubic feet. > Surface area to volume ratio equals 3 to 1. > > For a hemisphere: > Using radius = 1.382'; the surface area of a hemisphere > equals 12 square > feet; the volume of a hemisphere = 5.525 cubic feet. > Surface area to > volume ratio = 2.172 to 1. > > Both enclosures have surface area equal to 12 square > feet. > > Create a structure that is square only in the plane of > the base, and has > a linear transgression of its shape (to a height equal to > 1/2 its edge > length) into a circle or a point only in the plane at its > highest > zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The surface > area to volume > ratio of this structure will be exactly midway between > the above two > ratios: 3 minus 2.172 divided by two, added to the lowest > (hemisphere) > ratio. > > For a square based dome: > The surface area to volume ratio of this structure is > 2.586 to 1. > Surface area equals 12 square feet, volume equals 4.64 > cubic feet. > > 2.586 divided by 2.172 = 1.191 > This square based dome has a 19.1 percent greater surface > area to volume > ratio than a sphere. > > Blair > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 06:21:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree it's simple stuff. I don't understand why I can't get anyone to confirm or deny the math, either way you choose to approach it. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Blair >Isn't it easier to figure the volumes and areas for both >complete polyhedron, then divide by 2 to get the half cut >version of each form? > >You must be correct. This is simple stuff, wouldn't you >agree? > >Dick > > > >>From: "blair wolfram" >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:06:40 -0600 >> >>Useful formulas: >>Surface area of a hemisphere: 2 times pi times (radius >>squared). >>Volume of a hemisphere: [ 4/3 times pi times (radius >>cubed)] divided by 2. >>Surface area of half a cube: (length times width) plus 4 >>times (width >>times height). >>Volume of half a cube: height times width times length. >>Note: length equals width in half a cube. >> >>For a half cube: >>Using length of 2' and height of 1', the surface area of >>a half cube >>equals 12 square feet; the volume of a half cube equals 4 >>cubic feet. >>Surface area to volume ratio equals 3 to 1. >> >>For a hemisphere: >>Using radius = 1.382'; the surface area of a hemisphere >>equals 12 square >>feet; the volume of a hemisphere = 5.525 cubic feet. >>Surface area to >>volume ratio = 2.172 to 1. >> >>Both enclosures have surface area equal to 12 square >>feet. >> >>Create a structure that is square only in the plane of >>the base, and has >>a linear transgression of its shape (to a height equal to >>1/2 its edge >>length) into a circle or a point only in the plane at its >>highest >>zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The surface >>area to volume >>ratio of this structure will be exactly midway between >>the above two >>ratios: 3 minus 2.172 divided by two, added to the lowest >>(hemisphere) >>ratio. >> >>For a square based dome: >>The surface area to volume ratio of this structure is >>2.586 to 1. >>Surface area equals 12 square feet, volume equals 4.64 >>cubic feet. >> >>2.586 divided by 2.172 = 1.191 >>This square based dome has a 19.1 percent greater surface >>area to volume >>ratio than a sphere. >> >>Blair >> >> >> > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 06:45:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <3EA3D427.80404@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Volume of sphere, diameter 2=4.18 Volume of cube, edge length 2=8 Surface same sphere, 12.56 Surface same cube, 24 Ratio of surface to volume for sphere, 3.00 Ratio of surface to volume for cube, 3 But, with the same volume, the sphere surface is 12.56 and the cube's is 15.56. 15.56/12.56=1.23 So, the same volume cube takes 23% more surface to enclose the same volume as a sphere. Well, 23% isn't 19%. I'll have to look at how you arrived at your answer. Am I asking the right question? Wait, you are talking about a rounded off cube, right. Dick --- blair wolfram wrote: > I agree it's simple stuff. I don't understand why I can't > get anyone to > confirm or deny the math, either way you choose to > approach it. > > Blair > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <3EA3D427.80404@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- blair wolfram wrote: > I agree it's simple stuff. I don't understand why I > can't get anyone to > confirm or deny the math, either way you choose to > approach it. > > Blair > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > >Blair > >Isn't it easier to figure the volumes and areas for > both > >complete polyhedron, then divide by 2 to get the > half cut > >version of each form? > > > >You must be correct. This is simple stuff, wouldn't > you > >agree? > > > >Dick > > > > > > > >>From: "blair wolfram" > >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:06:40 -0600 > >> > >>Useful formulas: > >>Surface area of a hemisphere: 2 times pi times > (radius > >>squared). > >>Volume of a hemisphere: [ 4/3 times pi times > (radius > >>cubed)] divided by 2. > >>Surface area of half a cube: (length times width) > plus 4 > >>times (width > >>times height). > >>Volume of half a cube: height times width times > length. > >>Note: length equals width in half a cube. > >> > >>For a half cube: > >>Using length of 2' and height of 1', the surface > area of > >>a half cube > >>equals 12 square feet; the volume of a half cube > equals 4 > >>cubic feet. > >>Surface area to volume ratio equals 3 to 1. > >> > >>For a hemisphere: > >>Using radius = 1.382'; the surface area of a > hemisphere > >>equals 12 square > >>feet; the volume of a hemisphere = 5.525 cubic > feet. > >>Surface area to > >>volume ratio = 2.172 to 1. > >> > >>Both enclosures have surface area equal to 12 > square > >>feet. > >> > >>Create a structure that is square only in the > plane of > >>the base, and has > >>a linear transgression of its shape (to a height > equal to > >>1/2 its edge > >>length) into a circle or a point only in the plane > at its > >>highest > >>zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The > surface > >>area to volume > >>ratio of this structure will be exactly midway > between > >>the above two > >>ratios: 3 minus 2.172 divided by two, added to the > lowest > >>(hemisphere) > >>ratio. > >> > >>For a square based dome: > >>The surface area to volume ratio of this structure > is > >>2.586 to 1. > >>Surface area equals 12 square feet, volume equals > 4.64 > >>cubic feet. > >> > >>2.586 divided by 2.172 = 1.191 > >>This square based dome has a 19.1 percent greater > surface > >>area to volume > >>ratio than a sphere. > >> > >>Blair > >> I have come to a similar problem recently. Triangle for example is only a half shape formula is base time height divided by two. Triangle is always 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. In solids the sphere is the largest of solids and irregular tetrahedron is the smallest of solids. Irregular tet. is only a 1/3 shape. Formula for it's volume is base times height divided by three. So the tet. is only a 1/3 shape. The largest of shapes with one common vertex is a cone whose base can inscribe any triangular base and if they have the same height the cone will become the largest of shapes of that category. No one wants to accept this simplicity either. As a matter of fact by this analogy there is a limit not only in maxima but also minima. From all irregular tets. the 1/8 octahedron is the smallest of them all. this shape can not be reduced any further. No shape in existence if compared in relative size is smaller than 1/8 octahedron. Prove. I want to build a wall by the smallest of bricks possible where no one brick can have its shortest edge less than one unit length. So far there is no other solution than the 1/8 octahedron where any shape whose shortest edge length is no less than one unit length all shapes appear to have larger surface areas, therefore the 1/8 octahedron must be the absolute limit of size. frank > >> > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:57:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit That's great Joe. Curious though, there's no links. Are you planning to put the book online? Leif > From: Joe S Moore > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:15:09 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! > > Djubaya, > > See Fuller's 'Grunch of Giants'. Here's the table of contents: > http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-GrunchOfGiants.htm > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > "Djubaya" wrote in message > news:g7roa.7041$JX2.464098@typhoon.sonic.net... >> >> "Joe S Moore" >> >>> They are testing out the latest do-more-with-less technology >> >> Who are "THEY"...??? >> >> I work with BFI (www.BFI.org) and have been told to visit your site >> (http://buckminster.info), they say it is great... no time right now so >> perhaps in the morning, over a hot cup of 'Do more with less' Espresso. >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> "bigpit" >> >>> What do you think Buckminster Fuller would say about the current >>> situation? >> >> Here is something which he said which might be pertinent... >> >> "Since it is now physically and metaphysically demonstrable that the >> chemical elements resources of Earth already mined or in recirculation, > plus >> the knowledge we now have, are adequate to the support of all humanity and >> can be feasibly redesign-employed by 1985 to support all humanity at a >> higher standard of living than ever before enjoyed by any human, war is > now >> and henceforth murder. All weapons are invalid. Lying is intolerable. All >> politics are not only obsolete but lethal." >> >> from Synergetics Dictionary >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:13:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030421154131.35964.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Frank- Define smallest(or greatest) shape, please. I thought the square was always 2 triangles and the cube was always 3 tets. Dick > I have come to a similar problem recently. > Triangle for example is only a half shape formula is > base time height divided by two. Triangle is always > 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or > parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of > two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. > > In solids the sphere is the largest of solids and > irregular tetrahedron is the smallest of solids. > Irregular tet. is only a 1/3 shape. Formula for it's > volume is base times height divided by three. So the > tet. is only a 1/3 shape. The largest of shapes with > one common vertex is a cone whose base can inscribe > any triangular base and if they have the same height > the cone will become the largest of shapes of that > category. No one wants to accept this simplicity > either. > > As a matter of fact by this analogy there is a limit > not only in maxima but also minima. From all irregular > tets. the 1/8 octahedron is the smallest of them all. > this shape can not be reduced any further. No shape in > existence if compared in relative size is smaller than > 1/8 octahedron. > > Prove. I want to build a wall by the smallest of > bricks possible where no one brick can have its > shortest edge less than one unit length. So far there > is no other solution than the 1/8 octahedron where any > shape whose shortest edge length is no less than one > unit length all shapes appear to have larger surface > areas, therefore the 1/8 octahedron must be the > absolute limit of size. > > frank __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:30:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030421201310.77599.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Frank- Define smallest(or greatest) shape, please. > > I thought the square was always 2 triangles and the > cube > was always 3 tets. Your thought is OK. But by the definition of these formulas it is clear that the triangle or a tet. is a fractional shape, therefore fraction is derived from a whole, so it must be smaller. Maybe the terminalogie is not accepted by the means of educational correctness but the result is the same. Great= large, great circle is the largest circle in a sphere. Sphere is all made up by largest of circles. Reg. tet. is made up by the longest(largest) of lines,(edges) where there are no longer lines across it's face or across that solid. Cube is made up by the smallest or (shortest) of lines, where all the other lines with in or across its face or the solid all these lines are longer than those making it up. Sphere is the largest of shapes (greatest) maximal sphere therefore contains all shapes. The same is true for a circle of course. Cone can enclose all tetrahedra of the same height regular or irregular since it's base is a circle and it's body is a fraction of a circle it is the largest of solids with one common vertex. Formula is also same base times height divided by three. Cone is derived from a cylinder just is like the reg. tet. is derived from a cube. Whole shapes formulas do not have divisions in them, Sphere volume is r cubed times 4.188790205 1/8 of a octahedron must be the smallest of all irregular tets, since any irreg. tet. having its shortest ( smallest) edge the same length as the shortest edge of 1/8 octahedron it appears that all these shapes would be larger than a 1/8 oct. 1/8 oct. is therefore the smallest brick in the wall and so far no one has found a smaller brick compared on relative scale. If you build the wall by a Q-mod or anything else and it's shortest edge would be same as the shortest edge of a 1/8 oct. than the Q-mod. would be larger. I know that my terminalogie is not proper but nevereless it is still correct either way one looks at it. Octet truss is the simplest of structures it also contains 1/8 octahedron and so does the diamond structure, octane 1/8 oct. is the strongest building block and the strongest member of the cube. It is 1/6 of a cube therefore it is .5 of a reg. tet.= 1. Therefore no shape can be smaller than .5 in relative sence. Pyramid of Giza is build by the least amount of material. Any ,four face shape of the same base and height would require more material. For 5000 years obviously only the builder would be able to tell you that there are two reason he chosen a pyramid above all other shapes where he knew that he achieved the absolute strength by the least of efforts. He build its pyramid on the principles of a sand pile what we now call a true pyramid. All this was done with out the requirement of a elaboret mathematics or some skilful terminologie. frank > Dick > > > I have come to a similar problem recently. > > Triangle for example is only a half shape formula > is > > base time height divided by two. Triangle is > always > > 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or > > parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest > of > > two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. > > > > In solids the sphere is the largest of solids and > > irregular tetrahedron is the smallest of solids. > > Irregular tet. is only a 1/3 shape. Formula for > it's > > volume is base times height divided by three. So > the > > tet. is only a 1/3 shape. The largest of shapes > with > > one common vertex is a cone whose base can > inscribe > > any triangular base and if they have the same > height > > the cone will become the largest of shapes of that > > category. No one wants to accept this simplicity > > either. > > > > As a matter of fact by this analogy there is a > limit > > not only in maxima but also minima. From all > irregular > > tets. the 1/8 octahedron is the smallest of them > all. > > this shape can not be reduced any further. No > shape in > > existence if compared in relative size is smaller > than > > 1/8 octahedron. > > > > Prove. I want to build a wall by the smallest of > > bricks possible where no one brick can have its > > shortest edge less than one unit length. So far > there > > is no other solution than the 1/8 octahedron where > any > > shape whose shortest edge length is no less than > one > > unit length all shapes appear to have larger > surface > > areas, therefore the 1/8 octahedron must be the > > absolute limit of size. > > > > frank > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:41:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leif, I just remembered--Grunch IS online--along with a half dozen other Bucky books--at BFI's website; see: http://www.bfi.org/ (scroll down to "Books Online". -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leifur Thor" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 9:57 AM Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! > That's great Joe. Curious though, there's no links. Are you planning to put > the book online? > > Leif > > > From: Joe S Moore > > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:15:09 -0700 > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! > > > > Djubaya, > > > > See Fuller's 'Grunch of Giants'. Here's the table of contents: > > http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-GrunchOfGiants.htm > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > "Djubaya" wrote in message > > news:g7roa.7041$JX2.464098@typhoon.sonic.net... > >> > >> "Joe S Moore" > >> > >>> They are testing out the latest do-more-with-less technology > >> > >> Who are "THEY"...??? > >> > >> I work with BFI (www.BFI.org) and have been told to visit your site > >> (http://buckminster.info), they say it is great... no time right now so > >> perhaps in the morning, over a hot cup of 'Do more with less' Espresso. > >>> ------------------------------------------- > >>> "bigpit" > >> > >>> What do you think Buckminster Fuller would say about the current > >>> situation? > >> > >> Here is something which he said which might be pertinent... > >> > >> "Since it is now physically and metaphysically demonstrable that the > >> chemical elements resources of Earth already mined or in recirculation, > > plus > >> the knowledge we now have, are adequate to the support of all humanity and > >> can be feasibly redesign-employed by 1985 to support all humanity at a > >> higher standard of living than ever before enjoyed by any human, war is > > now > >> and henceforth murder. All weapons are invalid. Lying is intolerable. All > >> politics are not only obsolete but lethal." > >> > >> from Synergetics Dictionary > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:14:54 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf I put the "Practical Guide to Tensegrity Design" in PDF format following a much-appreciated suggestion by Chris Fearnley though it took me awhile to figure out how to do it. I don't know if I would have bothered with the MathML version if I'd figured out how to do it in PDF originally, but the MathML version is still good to have since it's easier to move around it with the hyper links. I've completed moving the guide to the internet and will now look into amplifying it a bit. The MathML version is still available at: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/cover.html And I've also revised my rendering of the 4v tensegrity tetrahedron so the two different types of struts are colored differently and thus easier to follow. That's at http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/slv4tetraa.html Happy Earth Day! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:31:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's interesting, your hybrid with a tetragonal base that becomes spherical at the tippy-top, but I don't know what your (other) point is. also, I don't know about your comparison of ratios, although teh surface-to-area seems normal. thus quoth: zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The surface area to volume ratio of this structure will be exactly midway between the above two ratios: --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:33:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dick is making another ill-constrained comment, based on the Fischstick/Clinton/Petit Conjecture ... which has been shown to be wrong, repeatedly -- for centuries! thus quoth: If you use triangles instead of squares for the unit of area, the area of a sphere is 2(n-2) as in Euler's formula. N is the number of vertexes. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:44:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed most of your stuff is always ill-defined, but hte fac that you insist on defining the tetragon (skware) as 'THE unit," will tip anyone off whose familiar with Bucky and _S_. no-one will ever do to well with this stuff, if they have'nt done a few geometrical *proofs*; I recommend starting with the 14th book of Euclid (by Hypsicles, actually), per bucky's ideal of starting with The Tetravertexion (ne, Tetrahedron .-) thus quoth: base time height divided by two. Triangle is always 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 03:00:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed your statement is mystaquen. your entire basis is the use of these "traditional" formulae, which use the hexahedron (qyoob) as "The Unit." for the rest, you simply don't know how to compare apple-shapes to orange-shapes. we won't wait with baited breath! thus quoth: now call a true pyramid. All this was done with out the requirement of a elaboret mathematics or some skilful terminologie. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 03:01:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that is really quite a tome! http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:39:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, your numbers are correct. The differences are I AM comparing a squared off sphere to a sphere, I'm using half ( of the sphere or cube ) enclosure, and I discounted the area under the domes in contact with the ground. A sphere with volume 8 like the cube v=8; has sphere surface 19.31, vs. cube surface of 24. So with 1/2 sphere of volume = 4; and a half cube volume = 4; 1/2 sphere surface = 9.66; and 1/2 cube surface = 12 9.66 divided by 12 = 1.24; your number allows rounding. In this size, the surface area to volume ratio of the squared dome to the sphere is midway between the two, or 1.12%; or 12% higher surface to volume ratio than a sphere; or 12% lower ratio than a 1/2 cube. I'm puzzled with r=1 that the surface area to volume ratio of both a cube and a sphere is 3 to 1. Is r=1 an exception to the formulas for volume and surface of a sphere? If I include the area of surface in contact with the ground 1/2 sphere surface = 12.80 1/2 cube surface = 16 16 divided by 12.80 = 1.25; again your number allowing rounding. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Volume of sphere, diameter 2=4.18 > >Volume of cube, edge length 2=8 > >Surface same sphere, 12.56 > >Surface same cube, 24 > >Ratio of surface to volume for sphere, 3.00 > >Ratio of surface to volume for cube, 3 > >But, with the same volume, the sphere surface is 12.56 and >the cube's is 15.56. > >15.56/12.56=1.23 > >So, the same volume cube takes 23% more surface to enclose >the same volume as a sphere. > >Well, 23% isn't 19%. I'll have to look at how you arrived >at your answer. Am I asking the right question? Wait, you >are talking about a rounded off cube, right. > >Dick > > >--- blair wolfram wrote: > > >>I agree it's simple stuff. I don't understand why I can't >>get anyone to >>confirm or deny the math, either way you choose to >>approach it. >> >>Blair >> >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:04:29 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, the 1.24 ratio holds for any r other than 1 if you hold the volume constant. For example, a sphere radius of 24, and a cube edge length of 38.68 both have volume 57,876. Then the sphere surface = 7,234 and the cube surface = 8976. 8976 divided by 7234 = 1.24, or 24% more surface. Blair blair wolfram wrote: > Yes, your numbers are correct. The differences are I AM comparing a > squared off sphere to a sphere, I'm using half ( of the sphere or cube ) > enclosure, and I discounted the area under the domes in contact with the > ground. > > A sphere with volume 8 like the cube v=8; has sphere surface 19.31, vs. > cube surface of 24. > > So with 1/2 sphere of volume = 4; and a half cube volume = 4; > 1/2 sphere surface = 9.66; and 1/2 cube surface = 12 > 9.66 divided by 12 = 1.24; your number allows rounding. > > In this size, the surface area to volume ratio of the squared dome to > the sphere is midway between the two, or 1.12%; or 12% higher surface to > volume ratio than a sphere; or 12% lower ratio than a 1/2 cube. > > I'm puzzled with r=1 that the surface area to volume ratio of both a > cube and a sphere is 3 to 1. Is r=1 an exception to the formulas for > volume and surface of a sphere? > > If I include the area of surface in contact with the ground > 1/2 sphere surface = 12.80 > 1/2 cube surface = 16 > 16 divided by 12.80 = 1.25; again your number allowing rounding. > > Blair > > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > >> Volume of sphere, diameter 2=4.18 >> >> Volume of cube, edge length 2=8 >> >> Surface same sphere, 12.56 >> >> Surface same cube, 24 >> >> Ratio of surface to volume for sphere, 3.00 >> >> Ratio of surface to volume for cube, 3 >> >> But, with the same volume, the sphere surface is 12.56 and >> the cube's is 15.56. >> >> 15.56/12.56=1.23 >> >> So, the same volume cube takes 23% more surface to enclose >> the same volume as a sphere. >> >> Well, 23% isn't 19%. I'll have to look at how you arrived >> at your answer. Am I asking the right question? Wait, you >> are talking about a rounded off cube, right. >> >> Dick >> >> >> --- blair wolfram wrote: >> >> >>> I agree it's simple stuff. I don't understand why I can't >>> get anyone to >>> confirm or deny the math, either way you choose to >>> approach it. >>> >>> Blair >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >> http://search.yahoo.com >> >> >> >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:13:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In this example I held the surface area constant. It seems if the surface area is held constant, a sphere has 38% more volume than a cube; and if the volume is held constant, the cube has 24% more surface area than a sphere. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Blair >Isn't it easier to figure the volumes and areas for both >complete polyhedron, then divide by 2 to get the half cut >version of each form? > >You must be correct. This is simple stuff, wouldn't you >agree? > >Dick > > > >>From: "blair wolfram" >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:06:40 -0600 >> >>Useful formulas: >>Surface area of a hemisphere: 2 times pi times (radius >>squared). >>Volume of a hemisphere: [ 4/3 times pi times (radius >>cubed)] divided by 2. >>Surface area of half a cube: (length times width) plus 4 >>times (width >>times height). >>Volume of half a cube: height times width times length. >>Note: length equals width in half a cube. >> >>For a half cube: >>Using length of 2' and height of 1', the surface area of >>a half cube >>equals 12 square feet; the volume of a half cube equals 4 >>cubic feet. >>Surface area to volume ratio equals 3 to 1. >> >>For a hemisphere: >>Using radius = 1.382'; the surface area of a hemisphere >>equals 12 square >>feet; the volume of a hemisphere = 5.525 cubic feet. >>Surface area to >>volume ratio = 2.172 to 1. >> >>Both enclosures have surface area equal to 12 square >>feet. >> >>Create a structure that is square only in the plane of >>the base, and has >>a linear transgression of its shape (to a height equal to >>1/2 its edge >>length) into a circle or a point only in the plane at its >>highest >>zenith. A ' morphing ' previously described. The surface >>area to volume >>ratio of this structure will be exactly midway between >>the above two >>ratios: 3 minus 2.172 divided by two, added to the lowest >>(hemisphere) >>ratio. >> >>For a square based dome: >>The surface area to volume ratio of this structure is >>2.586 to 1. >>Surface area equals 12 square feet, volume equals 4.64 >>cubic feet. >> >>2.586 divided by 2.172 = 1.191 >>This square based dome has a 19.1 percent greater surface >>area to volume >>ratio than a sphere. >> >>Blair >> >> >> > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:29:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF Comments: To: bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert W Burkhardt Cambridge, MA, USA Dear Bob, Thank you for posting your book on the internet. I think you are definitely advancing the art & science of tensegrity structures in general & tensegrity domes in particular. With the increased availability of information about how tensegrities work, maybe on of these days the technology might catch on. I just finished printing out your book to add to my Bucky-related books collection. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I do have two very minor comments regarding form--not content: 1. I think you meant to put copyright 2003, not 2004. 2. If you used 1" margins for top, bottom, left & right sides of a page, the document would print out in substantially less than 193 pages. I will be updating your entry in my RBF Master Index section, http://buckminster.info/Index/Bu-Bz.htm & will also update my Bucky Bibliography section under Books/About/A/ http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-Books-A.htm Thanks again, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Burkhardt" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:14 AM Subject: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF > Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf > > I put the "A Practical Guide to Tensegrity Design" in PDF format following > a much-appreciated > suggestion by Chris Fearnley though it took me awhile to figure out how > to do it. I don't know > if I would have bothered with the MathML version if I'd figured out how > to do it in PDF originally, > but the MathML version is still good to have since it's easier to move > around it with the hyper links. > I've completed moving the guide to the internet and will now look into > amplifying it a bit. The MathML version is still available at: > > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/cover.html > > And I've also revised my rendering of the 4v tensegrity tetrahedron so > the two different types > of struts are colored differently and thus easier to follow. That's at > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/slv4tetraa.html > > Happy Earth Day! > > Bob > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 04:38:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's a nice exercise, to set either the volume or the surface (or the linear measure) to be the unit, wo show the reciprocal "behavior" of the math. some thing that has yet to be noticed, viz Zubek's Doob! --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:35:33 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, I made the copyright date 2004 since this version is a transfer to the internet from the original 1994 first edition and I'm planning to revise it further before formally issuing the second edition in 2004 in celebration of it's 10th anniversary. Don't car manufacturers do something like that? The margins do need work. I'll look into it. Thanks for your suggestions, and you've exactly caught the purpose of the work. I hope we can get some more practical tensegrity creations into our architecture and other technology. I'd appreciate further feedback when you get around to reading it. Now that I've made the leap to PDF I think I can illustrate it a little better. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >Robert W Burkhardt >Cambridge, MA, USA > >Dear Bob, > >Thank you for posting your book on the internet. I think you are definitely >advancing the art & science of tensegrity structures in general & tensegrity >domes in particular. With the increased availability of information about >how tensegrities work, maybe on of these days the technology might catch on. > >I just finished printing out your book to add to my Bucky-related books >collection. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I do have two very >minor comments regarding form--not content: > >1. I think you meant to put copyright 2003, not 2004. > >2. If you used 1" margins for top, bottom, left & right sides of a page, the >document would print out in substantially less than 193 pages. > >I will be updating your entry in my RBF Master Index section, >http://buckminster.info/Index/Bu-Bz.htm >& will also update my Bucky Bibliography section under Books/About/A/ >http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-Books-A.htm > >Thanks again, > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Burkhardt" >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:14 AM >Subject: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF > > > > >>Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf >> >>I put the "A Practical Guide to Tensegrity Design" in PDF format following >>a much-appreciated >>suggestion by Chris Fearnley though it took me awhile to figure out how >>to do it. I don't know >>if I would have bothered with the MathML version if I'd figured out how >>to do it in PDF originally, >>but the MathML version is still good to have since it's easier to move >>around it with the hyper links. >>I've completed moving the guide to the internet and will now look into >>amplifying it a bit. The MathML version is still available at: >> >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/cover.html >> >>And I've also revised my rendering of the 4v tensegrity tetrahedron so >>the two different types >>of struts are colored differently and thus easier to follow. That's at >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/slv4tetraa.html >> >>Happy Earth Day! >> >>Bob >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 06:40:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Synergetics has only been around for a quarter centery. That's the difference. Make a model. Don't just cry. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Dick is making another ill-constrained comment, > based on the Fischstick/Clinton/Petit Conjecture ... > which has been shown to be wrong, repeatedly -- > for centuries! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:53:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > most of your stuff is always ill-defined, but hte > fac that > you insist on defining the tetragon (skware) as 'THE > unit," > will tip anyone off whose familiar with Bucky and > _S_. > no-one will ever do to well with this stuff, if > they have'nt done a few geometrical *proofs*; > I recommend starting with the 14th book of Euclid > (by Hypsicles, actually), per bucky's ideal > of starting with The Tetravertexion > (ne, Tetrahedron .-) > > thus quoth: > base time height divided by two. Triangle is always > 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or > parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of > two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. So what is wrong with the statement above? You always correcting people or I should say (annoying)parafraising ancient texts as to say that there is nothing one can produce by different method than the ancient conventional one. r cubed times 4.188790205 = volume of the sphere just because you use what others invented does not make you clever, rather ignorant. I'm meerely trying to interpret the formulas and they meaning as how and why they work, the way they do. One can use many method achieving the same results just because it is different of how do you know it it does not make it wrong. Show me a specific error, (mathematical) not a grammatical. Obviously you have not manage to get beyond of what you have to learned from text books but believe me all work can be done by many different means. frank > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:06:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > it's a nice exercise, > to set either the volume or the surface (or > the linear measure) to be the unit, > wo show the reciprocal "behavior" of the math. > > some thing that has yet to be noticed, > viz Zubek's Doob! Maybe my English is very bad since surface to volume or edge length is always considered in my analogy of comparasement. There is no apples or oranges and if there are, than I always manage to do comparasements. Just because geometry does not considers such comparasements well maybe it should, since I can deduce correct results from them. frank > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:03:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf Per Joe's suggestion I adjusted the margins to 1" all around (at least this is how they appear in Adobe Acrobat; Suse's Konquerer (Linux)just shows .5" at the top). The PDF version is now 173 pages instead of 195. I also changed the page numbering so the LaTeX page numbers correspond with PDF pages. This should make it easier to get around the book using a PDF browser. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >Robert W Burkhardt >Cambridge, MA, USA > >Dear Bob, > >Thank you for posting your book on the internet. I think you are definitely >advancing the art & science of tensegrity structures in general & tensegrity >domes in particular. With the increased availability of information about >how tensegrities work, maybe on of these days the technology might catch on. > >I just finished printing out your book to add to my Bucky-related books >collection. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I do have two very >minor comments regarding form--not content: > >1. I think you meant to put copyright 2003, not 2004. > >2. If you used 1" margins for top, bottom, left & right sides of a page, the >document would print out in substantially less than 193 pages. > >I will be updating your entry in my RBF Master Index section, >http://buckminster.info/Index/Bu-Bz.htm >& will also update my Bucky Bibliography section under Books/About/A/ >http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-Books-A.htm > >Thanks again, > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Burkhardt" >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:14 AM >Subject: Tensegrity Guide now in PDF > > > > >>Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf >> >>I put the "A Practical Guide to Tensegrity Design" in PDF format following >>a much-appreciated >>suggestion by Chris Fearnley though it took me awhile to figure out how >>to do it. I don't know >>if I would have bothered with the MathML version if I'd figured out how >>to do it in PDF originally, >>but the MathML version is still good to have since it's easier to move >>around it with the hyper links. >>I've completed moving the guide to the internet and will now look into >>amplifying it a bit. The MathML version is still available at: >> >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/cover.html >> >>And I've also revised my rendering of the 4v tensegrity tetrahedron so >>the two different types >>of struts are colored differently and thus easier to follow. That's at >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/slv4tetraa.html >> >>Happy Earth Day! >> >>Bob >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:37:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030423160619.84856.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Your english is alright. This quincy guy just has nothing better to do than insult people. I guess he thinks he is better than everyone else. Have you looked into synergetic geometry much? Are you aware of Bucky's main thinking on triangles, etc.? Dick --- frank zubek wrote: > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > it's a nice exercise, > > to set either the volume or the surface (or > > the linear measure) to be the unit, > > wo show the reciprocal "behavior" of the math. > > > > some thing that has yet to be noticed, > > viz Zubek's Doob! > > Maybe my English is very bad since surface to volume > or edge length is always considered in my analogy of > comparasement. There is no apples or oranges and if > there are, than I always manage to do comparasements. > Just because geometry does not considers such > comparasements well maybe it should, since I can > deduce correct results from them. > > frank __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:56:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030423193721.70681.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Your english is alright. This quincy guy just has > nothing > better to do than insult people. I guess he thinks > he is > better than everyone else. > > Have you looked into synergetic geometry much? Are > you > aware of Bucky's main thinking on triangles, etc.? I have wrote you on monday replied to the comment below. This concerns me more than Quincy. I was just want your opinion on the subject. Frank- Define smallest(or greatest) shape, please. > > I thought the square was always 2 triangles and the > cube > was always 3 tets. > Dick > > --- frank zubek wrote: > > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy > wrote: > > > it's a nice exercise, > > > to set either the volume or the surface (or > > > the linear measure) to be the unit, > > > wo show the reciprocal "behavior" of the math. > > > > > > some thing that has yet to be noticed, > > > viz Zubek's Doob! > > > > Maybe my English is very bad since surface to > volume > > or edge length is always considered in my analogy > of > > comparasement. There is no apples or oranges and > if > > there are, than I always manage to do > comparasements. > > Just because geometry does not considers such > > comparasements well maybe it should, since I can > > deduce correct results from them. > > > > frank > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:27:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey thanks Joe:-) > From: Joe S Moore > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:41:02 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! > > Leif, > > I just remembered--Grunch IS online--along with a half dozen other Bucky > books--at BFI's website; see: > http://www.bfi.org/ (scroll down to "Books Online". > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leifur Thor" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! > > >> That's great Joe. Curious though, there's no links. Are you planning to > put >> the book online? >> >> Leif >> >>> From: Joe S Moore >>> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >>> >>> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:15:09 -0700 >>> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: It's ALIVE !!! >>> >>> Djubaya, >>> >>> See Fuller's 'Grunch of Giants'. Here's the table of contents: >>> http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-GrunchOfGiants.htm >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> Joe S Moore >>> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>> http://buckminster.info >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> "Djubaya" wrote in message >>> news:g7roa.7041$JX2.464098@typhoon.sonic.net... >>>> >>>> "Joe S Moore" >>>> >>>>> They are testing out the latest do-more-with-less technology >>>> >>>> Who are "THEY"...??? >>>> >>>> I work with BFI (www.BFI.org) and have been told to visit your site >>>> (http://buckminster.info), they say it is great... no time right now so >>>> perhaps in the morning, over a hot cup of 'Do more with less' Espresso. >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> "bigpit" >>>> >>>>> What do you think Buckminster Fuller would say about the current >>>>> situation? >>>> >>>> Here is something which he said which might be pertinent... >>>> >>>> "Since it is now physically and metaphysically demonstrable that the >>>> chemical elements resources of Earth already mined or in recirculation, >>> plus >>>> the knowledge we now have, are adequate to the support of all humanity > and >>>> can be feasibly redesign-employed by 1985 to support all humanity at a >>>> higher standard of living than ever before enjoyed by any human, war is >>> now >>>> and henceforth murder. All weapons are invalid. Lying is intolerable. > All >>>> politics are not only obsolete but lethal." >>>> >>>> from Synergetics Dictionary >>>> >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:34:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Bucky Book Comments: To: stanleym@somtel.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stanley Museum Kingfield, ME, USA Dear Sirs, I would like to purchase a copy of your 30-page booklet "An Evening with = R Buckminster Fuller", but I need some additional information before I = can send you a check: Booklet.....$0.75 Postage....$_.__ Handling...$_.__ TOTAL......$_.__ Ref: http://www.stanleymuseum.org/Catalog.html Thank you, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:01:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Bucky Book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe- Does one have to buy this to read it? Is this a naive question? I'm interested in the conversation. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Stanley Museum > Kingfield, ME, USA > > Dear Sirs, > > I would like to purchase a copy of your 30-page booklet > "An Evening with R Buckminster Fuller", but I need some > additional information before I can send you a check: > > Booklet.....$0.75 > Postage....$_.__ > Handling...$_.__ > TOTAL......$_.__ > > Ref: http://www.stanleymuseum.org/Catalog.html > > Thank you, > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:38:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I ain't talking about "grammatical errors," Zube, but about one of the most oft-repeated "Greek mystaques," around here in Buckyland, to wit, "A trigon is only half of a tetragon" --F.Zubek what you're examining is the fact that a regular tetragon (skware) can be "decomposed" into two trigona (that aren't regular), which is some thing that most of us'd already learnt. (the Bucky-spiel goes, "see, this silly tetragon is floppy, when made of sticks with flexible joints, and WHEN IT'S NOT DIVIDED INTO TWO TRIGONA BY A 'DIAGONAL BRACE'" .-) UNFORTNATELY, oops, this factoid is used by most "mathemeticians," including geometers, in the opposite way that you do. why? because you're only looking at the size of the trigon, qua its having been dussected from a tetragon, as if that's what a trigon *is*. that fact that they do use it in that way, says nothing about the fact that they also happen to use the skware as their "unit of aerial mensuration." of course, the same goes for the hexahedron (qyoob) and the tetrahedron in space. if you want to rely on Dick, being alone with you in your corner, fine. as it is, he's got his own problem -- the Dick/Joe/Jacques Conjecture (which just goes to show, not all Coneheads are from France .-) thus quoth: >base time height divided by two. Triangle is always >1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or >parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of >two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. So what is wrong with the statement above? You always correcting people or I should say (annoying)parafraising ancient texts as to say that there is nothing one can produce by different method than the ancient conventional one. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:14:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bucky Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, Apparently one has to buy it. They used to want $3. The full title is _An Evening with R Buckminster Fuller: Reflections on Transportation & Communication_; 1983. Stanley was a 1917 classmate of Bucky's at Harvard. Too bad it can't be ordered online. Wonder if they will take a personal check? I suppose one could phone them. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Bucky Book > Joe- Does one have to buy this to read it? Is this a naive > question? I'm interested in the conversation. > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Stanley Museum > > Kingfield, ME, USA > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > > I would like to purchase a copy of your 30-page booklet > > "An Evening with R Buckminster Fuller", but I need some > > additional information before I can send you a check: > > > > Booklet.....$0.75 > > Postage....$_.__ > > Handling...$_.__ > > TOTAL......$_.__ > > > > Ref: http://www.stanleymuseum.org/Catalog.html > > > > Thank you, > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:23:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: global pursuit Comments: To: Gabriel Sroka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gabriel, Thanks for the information; I'll add it to my Bucky Index--probably = under "Maps" (?). I checked Nat'l Geographic's website; looks like = they no longer sell that item. Bucky could have made his map using only 12 pents, but he didn't want to = cut into the land masses; so he used 20 triangles. See = http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetMapGeneral.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gabriel Sroka=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: global pursuit Hey Joe,=20 i just bought a board game called Global Pursuit from a thrift store = for $3. it's not a dymaxion map, of course, but similar idea=20 see = http://www.gameroom.com/gamebits/RULES/140_National_Geographic_Global_Pur= suit_Rules.html=20 (scroll down halfway)=20 G ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:55:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: [geodesic dome homes] dome financing Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forward from Yahoo group "Geodesic Dome Homes" re financing: -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "bellestarr_m" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: [geodesic dome homes] dome financing > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You cannot reply to this message via email because you have chosen not > to disclose your email address to the group. > > To reply: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geodesicdomehomes/post?act=reply&messageNum=627 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Hi all! I just wanted to let you all know that after 6 months our > closing for our dome will take place on Wednesday the 30th. Century > 21 mortgage company financed it and our real estate agent really > worked hard pushing this through. Don't give up hope! I'll keep > you posted on the rest of the process. > Carol T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:34:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I ain't talking about "grammatical errors," Zube, > but > about one of the most oft-repeated "Greek > mystaques," > around here in Buckyland, to wit, > "A trigon is only half of a tetragon" --F.Zubek > what you're examining is the fact that > a regular tetragon (skware) can be "decomposed" > into two trigona (that aren't regular), > which is some thing that most of us'd already > learnt. > (the Bucky-spiel goes, > "see, this silly tetragon is floppy, > when made of sticks with flexible joints, and > WHEN IT'S NOT DIVIDED INTO TWO TRIGONA > BY A 'DIAGONAL BRACE'" .-) > UNFORTNATELY, oops, > this factoid is used by most "mathemeticians," > including geometers, in the opposite way that you > do. why? > because you're only looking at the size > of the trigon, qua its having been dussected > from a tetragon, as if that's what a trigon *is*. > > that fact that they do use it in that way, says > nothing > about the fact that they also happen to use the > skware > as their "unit of aerial mensuration." > of course, > the same goes for the hexahedron (qyoob) and > the tetrahedron in space. Look, you are saying the same thing I do and of course geometers of ancient time know this. Everyonbe is triying to say that I'm somehow conterdicting what is established by synergetics and that is not the case. The triangle and the tet. are fractional shapes tri. is 1/2 of the whole and tet. is 1/3 of the whole, what's wrong with that. No, Dick is not in my corner and unfortunatelly no one is. I just realizied that to build the wall by the smalest of bricks would be a structure like octet truss where there are 1/2 octahedrons and a reg. tet. 1/2 octhed. is made up by 4 1/8 octh. and those are the smallest of bricks. I know you will say that B-mods are smaller because they are derived from 1/8 octh. but if you compare these shapes individually where the shorthest edge of any of these shapes would be no less than one unit length than all shapes would be larger. That's all and it does not conterdick to synergetics or geometry. > if you want to rely on Dick, being alone with you > in your corner, fine. as it is, > he's got his own problem -- > the Dick/Joe/Jacques Conjecture (which just goes > to show, not all Coneheads are from France .-) > > thus quoth: > >base time height divided by two. Triangle is always > >1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or > >parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest > of > >two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. > > So what is wrong with the statement above? You > always > correcting people or I should say > (annoying)parafraising ancient texts as to say that > there is nothing one can produce by different method > than the ancient conventional one. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:00:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Dome Climbers Comments: To: Cassie Sasser Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cassie, I don't sell dome climbers, but I do have a list of dome climbers & dome = climber manufacturers. Please see: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Climbers.htm Also, I did a search for "dome climbers" & found the following: http://www.lasteelcraft.com/fitness/geo_fit.html http://www.apark.org/group.asp?group_id=3D195&category_id=3D89 http://www.sportsplayonline.com/store/33/0/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Cassie Sasser=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:39 PM Hi - your web-site was most discouraging. I was interested in = purchasing a dome climber and could simply find a picture of one and = could go no further. Are they available for sale? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 23:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Virtual Dome Ttour Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 360 degree view inside a transparent Solardome Southampton, England http://www.solardome.co.uk/geodesic-domes/virtualtour.php -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:53:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this thread needs another topic! actually, your "method" is interesting, because it takes Bucky's a bit further. his whole paradigm o'mensuration was based literally upon taking the sticks of the proverbial stick-figures -- and, of course, the toothpick-and-pea constructs -- taht he'd only been able to see for a long time; that is, line-drawings of buildings & mathematical diagrams. is it correct to say, you're "normalizing" all of your tetrahedra, so that one's smallest edge is of length, one?... still, your notion of the tetrahedron being "a third of a unit" is silly; you're just using the traditional formula, which is derived from the hexahedron, and one can just as easily "go the other way" with it. (viz, the "ancients" weren't exactly wrong about this, but they may have been "not even" wrong.) once again, the exemplary problemma is: dissect the hexahedron (qyoob) into 3 congruent pyramids (it's easy, using the 3-fold rotational "view" of it .-) Yashikawa also has a unique way of doing it, as do others. thus quoth: the smallest of bricks. I know you will say that B-mods are smaller because they are derived from 1/8 octh. but if you compare these shapes individually where the shorthest edge of any of these shapes would be no less than one unit length than all shapes would be larger. That's all and it does not conterdick to --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Address Comments: To: webmaster@greenfields.org Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Green Fields Country Day School Webmaster Dear Sir, Try as I might, I can't seem to find on your website the actual street = address of your establishment, nor can I positively determine which city = or country it is located in! Do you think you might be able to help me? = I would like to pin down the location of your Art Dome. Ref: http://www.greenfields.org/finearts/artdome/artdomehomepage.html Thank you, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:41:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > this thread needs another topic! > actually, > your "method" is interesting, because > it takes Bucky's a bit further. Thanks, I have thought so. his whole paradigm > o'mensuration was based literally > upon taking the sticks of the proverbial > stick-figures > -- and, of course, the toothpick-and-pea constructs > -- > taht he'd only been able to see for a long time; > that is, > line-drawings of buildings & mathematical diagrams. > is it correct to say, > you're "normalizing" all of your tetrahedra, so that > one's smallest edge is of length, one? Finally, least one person understands, appears exactly what I meant by the standarized edge lenght of one unit. ... still, > your notion of the tetrahedron being "a third > of a unit" is silly; you're just using the > traditional formula, > which is derived from the hexahedron, and one can > just > as easily "go the other way" with it. Sure, I agree but this method does jives with the formulas as we usem today. With Fuller method we would have to rewrite the whole concept of surface and volume areas. It just seams easier and puts everithing under one ruff, beside the concep I introducing is not to educate the educated ones but rather explains how and why these formulas work a explenation for a general public (kids and udolts). (viz, > the "ancients" weren't exactly wrong about this, but > they may have been "not even" wrong.) > once again, the exemplary problemma is: > dissect the hexahedron (qyoob) into 3 congruent > pyramids > (it's easy, using the 3-fold rotational "view" of it > .-) Exactly that is the method I know that I did not come up with it, but realized confussion of kids and some teachers so this way I have inbcorporated all tets. and the cone all shapes with one common vertex have that 1/3 volue when derived from a whole. Mathematics is complicated as it is for most so why not to derive something what actuali works for all and still not conterdicting what already have been established. As you see even synergio guys have problem with it eventhough there is none. I would like to add one more thind that by the method of unit edge lenght one can eassy see that the smallest of bricks would have the minimal volume of .5 if reg.tet. is 1. Conclussion, no shape (solid)of one common vertex can be less than .5. This is the smallest of solids. frank > Yashikawa also has a unique way of doing it, > as do others. > > thus quoth: > the smallest of bricks. I know you will say that > B-mods are smaller because they are derived from 1/8 > octh. but if you compare these shapes individually > where the shorthest edge of any of these shapes > would > be no less than one unit length than all shapes > would > be larger. That's all and it does not conterdick to > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:48:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: World Stats on Bucky Maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Global stats plotted on Fuller projection maps: http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/knox/medialib/media_portfolio/i= ndex.html From: _Places & Regions in Global Context: Human Geography By: Paul L Knox & Sallie A Marston Prentice-Hall, 2002 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:08:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I really don't comprehend what you're trying to do, since your act of "normalizng" the one edge, would tend to make everything differently-sized, from any initial "disection." you need to work on it, so that *you* comprehend it, til you have a presentable hypothesis, at which time you may even have some thing that's as presentable as Bucky's dissections, or Yashikawa's, or what ever. Not, of course, taht Bucky's idea was really complete; in fact, his "cosmic hierarchy" is rather arbitrary, as far as I'm concerned, because (it seems) of his willfull method of ignoring the shapes that aren't trigonated. that has its good things, though! thus quoth: I would like to add one more thind that by the method of unit edge lenght one can eassy see that the smallest of bricks would have the minimal volume of .5 if reg.tet. is 1. Conclussion, no shape (solid)of one common vertex can be less than .5. This is the smallest of solids. --les ducs d'Enron! http://www.tarpley.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What is the point of disecting a cube? And what does size have to do with anything? The tet is the minimum system, regular or irregular, or what ever aspect examined. Besides, size is always special case. A shape as defined by angle can be any size. What is special about the octane? It's an irregular tet, isn't it? What else is it? Can't we build a wall out of irregular tets? There are different qualities of a vertexion. You got yer frequency, your surface, and your volume. The number of vertexes determines everything. To build a wall with irregular tets, the edge lengths can be kept between 1 and root 2. This is a wall 1 edge length thick. No edge need be greater than root 2. Am I right? What's the name of the tet that is a 1/4 octa with one edge longer that the other 5 edges, whose length is the diagonal of the octa? That octa has the same volume as a regular tet. One edge hinged open. Peaceout Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I really don't comprehend what you're trying to do, since > your act of "normalizng" the one edge, > would tend to make everything differently-sized, > from any initial "disection." > you need to work on it, so that *you* comprehend it, > til you have a presentable hypothesis, at which time > you may even have some thing that's as presentable > as Bucky's dissections, or Yashikawa's, or what ever. > Not, of course, taht Bucky's idea was really > complete; > in fact, his "cosmic hierarchy" is rather arbitrary, > as far as I'm concerned, because (it seems) > of his willfull method of ignoring the shapes > that aren't trigonated. that has its good things, > though! > > thus quoth: > I would like to add one more thind that by the method > of unit edge lenght one can eassy see that the > smallest of bricks would have the minimal volume of .5 > if reg.tet. is 1. Conclussion, no shape (solid)of one > common vertex can be less than .5. This is the > smallest of solids. > > --les ducs d'Enron! > http://www.tarpley.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:23:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I really don't comprehend what you're trying to do, > since > your act of "normalizng" the one edge, >( would tend to make everything differently-sized, > from any initial "dissection.") It seams that you actually do understand because the last sentence from you above I put in parentheses. That is the exact reason that any initial dissection would produce a differently sized shape and more importantly than the unit edge lenght of these consecutive dissections would become less than one unit. > you need to work on it, so that *you* comprehend > it, > til you have a presentable hypothesis, at which time > you may even have some thing that's as presentable > as Bucky's dissections, or Yashikawa's, or what > ever. I agree, but it may not be necessary since the problem becomes obvious when one try to build a wall by the smallest of bricks possible. I will put this out as a 21 cen. puzzle offering $ 500 who comes up with a smaller brick for the wall, smaller than the one I have introduced 1/8 0ct. If no brick can have the shortest edge less than one unit I think it is impossible to have something less than is the octet truss as one of few solutions in which all solutions demonstrating that the 1/8 octahedron is the bottom line for this or any structure. Not, of course, that Bucky's idea was really > complete; > in fact, his "cosmic hierarchy" is rather arbitrary, > as far as I'm concerned, because (it seems) > of his willfull method of ignoring the shapes > that aren't trigonated. that has its good things, > though! When Bucky dissected a 1/4 reg. tet. in to 6 A-mods. he needed to make six cuts to arrive at the unity of the individual shapes I needed only three cuts to produce 4 shapes of equal volume. I have achieved the same result with less.My cuts are natural his are induced (strictly mathematical) nothing to do with nature. This unity for Bucky was enough to stop doing any further cuts, and there are few surprises little bit deeper. When I dissect a double corner(one of shapes from my set) this shape does produce a smaller version of it self so the dissections are final for that shape since we can do that till infinity and it will still just produce it self. Solid kite a another member of my set produces 4 double corners and a 1/4 reg. tet. A octane produces 6-B-mods and than 8- double corners and a 1/4 reg. tet. and again a octane deep with in and all the way to infinity. It seams that the octane is always deep with in of any tet. as the absolute limit. I have also thought that if I just do more and more dissections, the way I do, eventually all shapes would become standardized in they appearance not size, other words they all become to be octanes,but I'm not sure of that. For a cube as I have done the dissections it is obvious that the very last shape would be a sphere consist of minute equilateral tri. all owe it surface. I have not go that deep of course but it appears that that would be the last result. Thanks for your input, hopefully only in time we see if I'm wrong or correct or if it leads anywhere. frank > thus quoth: > I would like to add one more thing that by the > method > of unit edge length one can easy see that the > smallest of bricks would have the minimal volume of > .5 > if reg.tet. is 1. Conclussion, no shape (solid)of > one > common vertex can be less than .5. This is the > smallest of solids. > > --les ducs d'Enron! > http://www.tarpley.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:18:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030428232318.4915.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- frank zubek wrote: smaller than the one I > have introduced 1/8 0ct. What are the dimensions of the octane? > When Bucky dissected a 1/4 reg. tet. in to 6 A-mods. 4 a-modules, not 6. > > Thanks for your input, hopefully only in time we see > if I'm wrong or correct or if it leads anywhere. > > frank Everything leads somewhere. Let's look into your conjecture. No one can learn less, except for q. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:01:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Bucky-Related Newsletters Comments: To: "Grace, Deborah" Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deborah, Here's a list of 16 Bucky-Related Electronic Newsletters: 1. Design Science Community http://reality.sculptors.com/cgi-bin/dsc 2. DomeHome http://www.domegroup.org/ 3. Geodesic http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html MSN Groups:=20 4. Buckminster Fuller http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller 5. Geodesic Dome Homes http://groups.msn.com/GeodesicDomeHomes/home.htm 6. Global Livingry Service = http://groups.msn.com/TheGlobalLivingryService/home.htm Yahoo Groups: 7. BFI News http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BFI_News/ 8. BFI-SEO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bfi-seo/ 9. Buckminster Fuller http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BuckminsterFuller/ 10. Buckminster_Fuller http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buckminster_Fuller/ 11. Bucky Fuller Dome http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thebuckyfullerdome/ 12. Bucky International = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buckyinternational/ 13. Dome Living http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dome_Living/ 14. Domes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Domes/ 15. Icosahedron Dome http://groups.yahoo.com/group/icosahedrondome/ 16. Synergeo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:37:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe- Do you have a guess as to how many people are in total reading these newsletters? Maybe a thousand? Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Deborah, > > Here's a list of 16 Bucky-Related Electronic Newsletters: > > 1. Design Science Community > http://reality.sculptors.com/cgi-bin/dsc > 2. DomeHome http://www.domegroup.org/ > 3. Geodesic > http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html > > MSN Groups: > 4. Buckminster Fuller > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller > 5. Geodesic Dome Homes > http://groups.msn.com/GeodesicDomeHomes/home.htm > 6. Global Livingry Service > http://groups.msn.com/TheGlobalLivingryService/home.htm > > Yahoo Groups: > 7. BFI News http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BFI_News/ > 8. BFI-SEO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bfi-seo/ > 9. Buckminster Fuller > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BuckminsterFuller/ > 10. Buckminster_Fuller > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buckminster_Fuller/ > 11. Bucky Fuller Dome > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thebuckyfullerdome/ > 12. Bucky International > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buckyinternational/ > 13. Dome Living > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dome_Living/ > 14. Domes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Domes/ > 15. Icosahedron Dome > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/icosahedrondome/ > 16. Synergeo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:39:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030429001838.80398.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- frank zubek wrote: > smaller than the one I > > have introduced 1/8 0ct. > > What are the dimensions of the octane? Three edges are square root of one and other three edges are square root of two as the base is a equilateral triangle. A first order dissection of a cube is 4 octanes and the leftower is a reg. tet. Octane is a 1/8 octahedron. It's shortest edge are the dimenssions of the cube edge. > > > When Bucky dissected a 1/4 reg. tet. in to 6 > A-mods. > > 4 a-modules, not 6. There is 24 mods in a reg.tet. as per dissections by Fuller. A-mods come in left and right hand orientations There is 6 B-mods in a octane also in left and right hand orientation. frank > > Thanks for your input, hopefully only in time we > see > > if I'm wrong or correct or if it leads anywhere. > > > > frank > > Everything leads somewhere. Let's look into your > conjecture. No one can learn less, except for q. > > Dick > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:05:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, As far as the lists go (Geodesic, DomeHome, etc) one might try contacting the "owner". Regarding the MSN & Yahoo groups, one could go to the "messages" section & count the number of senders, but that would not desclose the number of "lurkers". It's a tough stat to determine. BTW, there's a third category that I didn't research: The newsgroups. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters > Joe- Do you have a guess as to how many people are in total > reading these newsletters? Maybe a thousand? > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Deborah, > > > > Here's a list of 16 Bucky-Related Electronic Newsletters: > > > > 1. Design Science Community > > http://reality.sculptors.com/cgi-bin/dsc > > 2. DomeHome http://www.domegroup.org/ > > 3. Geodesic > > http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html > > > > MSN Groups: > > 4. Buckminster Fuller > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller > > 5. Geodesic Dome Homes > > http://groups.msn.com/GeodesicDomeHomes/home.htm > > 6. Global Livingry Service > > http://groups.msn.com/TheGlobalLivingryService/home.htm > > > > Yahoo Groups: > > 7. BFI News http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BFI_News/ > > 8. BFI-SEO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bfi-seo/ > > 9. Buckminster Fuller > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BuckminsterFuller/ > > 10. Buckminster_Fuller > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buckminster_Fuller/ > > 11. Bucky Fuller Dome > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thebuckyfullerdome/ > > 12. Bucky International > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buckyinternational/ > > 13. Dome Living > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dome_Living/ > > 14. Domes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Domes/ > > 15. Icosahedron Dome > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/icosahedrondome/ > > 16. Synergeo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:10:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030428231101.31520.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > What is the point of disecting a cube? Well, now Dick you surpricing me with such question, what is the point of dissecting a reg. tet. Let me help you out. First of all if you would not know about the cube you could not comprehand the unit volume of a reg. tet. In mathematics the cube has a very fundamental place in surface and volume unit measurements. Second is that my cube (Elusive cube) contains all the shapes (mites) derived on the cube dimenssions, therefore, geometry, synergetics, crystalography,chemistry, comp. cosmography and physics and perhaps guantum physics all can be demonstrated by this single manipulative. Most importantly, however I have visited the school of blind in Muskoge Oklahoma and believe me what I have done for blind was never achieved yet. By the time I got home from a 4 hours demo. I had e-mails from the students of that school. As I have assumed that a averige blind person will be beter at this than a visualy healty individual. They also showed me all the manipulatives awailable at they school, most do nothing but collect dust. My set is the most comprehansive manipulative ever penetrating many concepts of science. Not to mention that after 3 years I still discovering new combinations and I doubth that you have ever had a manipulative based on such simple principles being yet very complex. Go look in to any crystalography sites you will realize and recognize my shapes contained with in nature. I'm sure these are reasons clear enough why the cube and not a reg.tet. And what does size have to do with anything? Dick, perhaps nothing, but show me a triangle which is not a 1/2 of the whole it was derived from, show me a tet. which in not 1/3 of the whole it was derived from and the last show me a brick smaller than a octane. Untill than one will have to see that all these limits and relations have not been surpased. So it has to have a relevance regardeles if synergetics or even geometry accepts it or not. > The tet is the minimum system, regular or irregular, > or > what ever aspect examined. Yes, I do understand that but you would still have to prove me wrong and if you or no one else can, it has to be considered that it has some meaning based on logic and spatial reasoning. Besides, size is always > special > case. A shape as defined by angle can be any size. Yes, in synergetyics well size is a frequency and the shape it self is a prefrequency. But Dick, if to much education and knowledge builds a fence around your imagination than the education done more bad than good since you would not alow your self to venture behind what you have learned. To assume significance in concepts which are not so traditional is a scientific approach otherwice the whole evolution of science would be stucks with Aristatole and that is not the case. Previously you said that the circle is a polygon and the sphere is a polyvertexion but when you do calculation of circumferences and areas you use Pi and not addition as it would be true for a perimeter of a square or hepta.penta. and so on. So you say one fact true in a technical term but use relative approach suited for your calculation. It is like a you have a double standard. > What is special about the octane? It's an irregular > tet, > isn't it? What else is it? Yes it is but the main diference is that octane contains and is made by two dimensions 1/2 of its legth edges are sq.root of one and the other 1/2 is sq.root of two. Beside you can not know this because you do not have the elusive cube, where the octane in my set is the most common shape and it is definitelly the most important glue in that set. It is the key piece to further structures. Since my set contains *all* possible mites 6 of them there is no more nor less it contains all the irregular minimal shapes with in that cube and the smallest of all these shapes with in that cube is the octane still preserving the same volume as the rest. Can't we build a wall out of irregular tets? Sure, I can doit by least five diferent ways. There > are > different qualities of a vertexion. You got yer > frequency, > your surface, and your volume. The number of > vertexes > determines everything. Sure the more spherical the haul the larger the volume and surface gets, but we are in the realms of a tet. so there is only 4 vertexis. > To build a wall with irregular tets, the edge > lengths can > be kept between 1 and root 2. This is a wall 1 edge > length > thick. No edge need be greater than root 2. Am I > right? Yes you are, so the octet trus edge lenght is root 2 but the smallest brick is still a 1/8 octhedron of edge root 1. eventhough it is not visible. I can rearange the same pieces of a octet truss and make a cube or a rhombus,parraleploid so it is still producing the same result. > What's the name of the tet that is a 1/4 octa with > one edge > longer that the other 5 edges, whose length is the > diagonal > of the octa? That octa has the same volume as a > regular > tet. One edge hinged open. That is *two* octanes joined by the right deg. trian faces. I'm not sure of any specific name since it is two shapes joined to form one. But Dick, we do not have to do a very elaboret thinking, analyzing, scrutenazing something puerly based on skilful terminologyes, such approach limits and hides the true fact,the bottom line is that if you can not conterdict me since you have not showed me anything which could change my mind, than it appears that the bottom line is a minimal volume of a shape a solid, which by this definition must be .5 When Mendelev build up the periodic table he was also discouriged by other to saying that it is meaningles, but before he was done it was clear that all other have bin wrong. This is vhere the size matters since he established that it vill be the hydr.atom to which we meassure all other atoms to. So if Fuller sais 1 tet. volume I can say that to be more precise it is 2 units each of volume of .5 and so farr no one have produced nothing smaller than that. Fuller did not go deep enough to hit the absolute limit I have. frank > Peaceout > Dick > > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy > wrote: > > I really don't comprehend what you're trying to > do, since > > your act of "normalizng" the one edge, > > would tend to make everything differently-sized, > > from any initial "disection." > > you need to work on it, so that *you* > comprehend it, > > til you have a presentable hypothesis, at which > time > > you may even have some thing that's as presentable > > as Bucky's dissections, or Yashikawa's, or what > ever. > > Not, of course, taht Bucky's idea was really > > complete; > > in fact, his "cosmic hierarchy" is rather > arbitrary, > > as far as I'm concerned, because (it seems) > > of his willfull method of ignoring the shapes > > that aren't trigonated. that has its good things, > > though! > > > > thus quoth: > > I would like to add one more thind that by the > method > > of unit edge lenght one can eassy see that the > > smallest of bricks would have the minimal volume > of .5 > > if reg.tet. is 1. Conclussion, no shape (solid)of > one > > common vertex can be less than .5. This is the > > smallest of solids. > > > > --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://www.tarpley.net > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months > FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:30:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Website Links Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Find out who is linked to your website: (requires Java JRE 1.3+) http://www.touchgraph.com/TGGoogleBrowser.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:02:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: Bucky Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Bucky Book-------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stanley Museum=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Bucky Book Dear Mr. Moore, Thank you for your inquiry about the book, "An Evening with R = Buckminster Fuller". You are correct, the price of the book is $.75 and = it is $4.00 for shipping and handling. I would be happy to send it out = to you as soon as we receive payment in the amount of $4.75, to be paid = to the Stanley Museum. Thank you again and I look forward to hearing = from you soon. Sincerely, Roxanna Decker Administrative Assistant Stanley Museum, Inc. 40 School Street, PO Box 77 Kingfield, ME 04947 - USA Tel.: 207-265-2729 Fax: 207-265-4700 E-mail: Maine@stanleymuseum.org Website: www.stanleymuseum.org=20 From: "Joe S Moore" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:34:52 -0700 To: Cc: "List, Geodesic" Subject: Bucky Book Stanley Museum Kingfield, ME, USA Dear Sirs, I would like to purchase a copy of your 30-page booklet "An Evening = with R Buckminster Fuller", but I need some additional information = before I can send you a check: Booklet.....$0.75 Postage....$_.__ Handling...$_.__ TOTAL......$_.__ Ref: http://www.stanleymuseum.org/Catalog.html=20 Thank you, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:50:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed an octant of an octahedron (if it's a tetrahedron with an equigonal face as a base) will have three edges of length root(1/2), if the original octahedral edges are unit. so, What? yes, there are 6 A- and B-mods in each octant. note that, like the octaheron, the octants can not "tile all space," without the complimentary tetrahedral chuncks (although the As and Bs can, together, two-to-one .-) so, where's my money? thus quoth: smallest of bricks possible. I will put this out as a 21 cen. puzzle offering $ 500 who comes up with a smaller brick for the wall, smaller than the one I have introduced 1/8 0ct. If no brick can have the --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:02:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'll say it, again. you are simply using the old-timey Greek definition, using The Hexahedron as the "fundamental unit," which is an unrequired assumption. the simple fact that they pile-up, face-to-face to full space, is no reason to calibrate reality on that basis. you have not bothered to grok the most elementary thing in _S_, and you shouldn't be berating folks on such a list, as this ... but, at least some of us *know* about it, which may not be the case in a sci.math forum in general e.g. again, dissect a hexahedron (qyoob) into 3 "congruent" polyhedra -- they're not tetrahedra, you'll see! actually, the planar case ("trigon is half of a tetragon (skware)") is bogus, since the resulting trigon isn't equigonal ("triangle isn't equilateral" i.e.), which again shows the importance of Bucky's dictum: start with the solids! anyway, the blind kids will figure this out, once you stop blabbing to them about Zubek's Doob. thus quoth: Dick, perhaps nothing, but show me a triangle which is not a 1/2 of the whole it was derived from, show me a tet. which in not 1/3 of the whole it was derived from and the last show me a brick smaller than a octane. Untill than one will have to see that all these limits and relations have not been surpased. So it has to have a relevance regardeles if synergetics or even geometry accepts it or not. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:35:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fullerene Generator Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Java fullerene structures generator (including domes): http://www.cochem2.tutkie.tut.ac.jp/Fuller/fsl/fsl.html See especially Goldberg Polyhedra. by Mitsuho Yoshida & Mitsutaka Fujita,=20 Theoretical/Computational Chemistry Laboratory, Japan -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:42:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030429171029.83317.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- frank zubek wrote: To assume significance in > concepts which are not so traditional is a scientific > approach otherwice the whole evolution of science > would be stucks with Aristatole and that is not the > case. I'd say you are stuck with the cube which, in fact, makes a terrible structural element. Bucky moves past the cube. > Previously you said that the circle is a polygon and > the sphere is a polyvertexion but when you do > calculation of circumferences and areas you use Pi Bucky does not use pi. The area of a poly is 2(n-2), where n is the number of vertexes. That's in trigons. This is independent of size. > Sure the more spherical the haul the larger the volume > and surface gets, but we are in the realms of a tet. > so there is only 4 vertexis. If we are in the realm of tets, why isn't the regular tet the "smallest shape?" > > > Yes you are, so the octet trus edge lenght is root 2 > but the smallest brick is still a 1/8 octhedron of > edge root 1. eventhough it is not visible. Synergetic math is operational math. If something can not be demonstrated, it is considered irrelevant. So, in this way to see things, the octane is not an element of the octet truss. It is not there. > I can > rearange the same pieces of a octet truss and make a > cube or a rhombus,parraleploid so it is still > producing the same result. What do you mean, same result? In what sense the same? > > What's the name of the tet that is a 1/4 octa with > > one edge > > longer that the other 5 edges, whose length is the > > diagonal > > of the octa? That octa has the same volume as a > > regular > > tet. One edge hinged open. > > That is *two* octanes joined by the right deg. trian > faces. I'm not sure of any specific name since it is > two shapes joined to form one. It is one shape, the tetraherdon. It has 4 vertexes, 6 edges, etc. > > But Dick, we do not have to do a very elaboret > thinking, analyzing, scrutenazing something puerly > based on skilful terminologyes, We can't communicate at all without EXACT teminologies! Some people feel Bucky's language to be arbitrary or confusing. I find him precise in his descriptions. such approach limits > and hides the true fact,the bottom line is that if you > can not conterdict me since you have not showed me > anything which could change my mind, than it appears > that the bottom line is a minimal volume of a shape a > solid, which by this definition must be .5 > When Mendelev build up the periodic table he was also > discouriged by other to saying that it is meaningles, > but before he was done it was clear that all other > have bin wrong. This is vhere the size matters since > he established that it vill be the hydr.atom to which > we meassure all other atoms to. So if Fuller sais 1 > tet. volume I can say that to be more precise it is 2 > units each of volume of .5 and so farr no one have > produced nothing smaller than that. Fuller did not go > deep enough to hit the absolute limit I have. Yes, there is always deeper to go. Dump the cartesian system and you will find a new way to see. A tet of some given volume or given area can look like anything. I just don't see cubes anymore. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Wu Shaoxiang Comments: To: sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There are 2 ways to triangulate this apple. Connect the coin centers, or extend the coins to fill the gaps. The first way gives a poly of all trigons. The second gives a sort of Goldberg polyhedron. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/ shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=142 Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:45:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > an octant of an octahedron (if it's a tetrahedron > with an equigonal face as a base) will have three > edges > of length root(1/2), if > the original octahedral edges are unit. It is correct what you are saying in proportion of edge length, however the three edges of a octa. is root 2 and the other three are root 1, which are the shorthest edges of this shape. As I sayid your proportion is still correct. so, What? > yes, there are 6 A- and B-mods in each octant. > note that, like the octaheron, > the octants can not "tile all space," > without the complimentary tetrahedral chuncks > (although Yes, I do understand that there is one reg.tet. to a 1/2 octa.or four octane. Octahedron is comprised by 8 octanes in other words this solid octahedron is divided in to 8 identical shapes so octahedron is dissected in to identical shapes where there is no need to disect it any further. > the As and Bs can, together, two-to-one .-) > > so, where's my money? There is no reward for dumb solutions, if the B or A mod would have its shorthes edge of one unit it would be larger so your solution is wrong. Newerless, least now you know what this problem is all about, because your incorect solution will lead you to a correct conclusion but you will not finde a smaller shape. I think it would be safe to rase the reward to make it more attractive. > thus quoth: > smallest of bricks possible. I will put this out as > a > 21 cen. puzzle offering $ 500 who comes up with a > smaller brick for the wall, smaller than the one I > have introduced 1/8 0ct. If no brick can have the > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:08:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I'll say it, again. > > you are simply using the old-timey Greek definition, > using The Hexahedron as the "fundamental unit," Well not only me but everybody does. We are in the 21 can. so if you think that anybody can come up with something new in a subject which is well established especially at the elementary level, than you asking for something impossible. All knowledge is build on previous discoveries, why or how should I be original, so yes everithing I have done as I asume also applies to you is based on the folks before as. > which is an unrequired assumption. the simple fact > that > they pile-up, face-to-face to full space, > is no reason to calibrate reality on that basis. I'm not calibrating reality I'm calibretind the bricks in the wall, so to have some unity in which I can determine what is large or small. By that definition the reality becomes standarized where for *pound for pound* so to speak we can establish the magnitude of individuals in a the standarized form. > you have not bothered to grok the most > elementary thing > in _S_, and you shouldn't be berating folks > on such a list, as this ... but, > at least some of us *know* about it, > which may not be the case in a sci.math forum > in general e.g. This is a disscution list if you berated, the solution is very simple, just do not reply. I have newer see your ideas reather you jumping in on warrious topics and insult folks, for they atempts. Example; War in Iraq, where we count our cassualities only in dosens, which is good but now to compare the # of casualities caused by our own becomes to be also in dosens, which in retrospec shows that the very technical war kills it's own solgiers in the same ratio as our soldiers killed by the anemy. This is just a example do not get excited about the numbers and some meaningless technicalities, I just showing you, that there is diferent way to see things, where the trut can be interpreted in diferent wyas. You may say that the whole analasis is wrong because this or that, but the #s are the meassuring stick, so you can do what you want but the results are the same. Conclusion, the very tecnicaly advanced war kills his own at the same rate as the killing done by the anemy. > again, dissect a hexahedron (qyoob) > into 3 "congruent" polyhedra -- > they're not tetrahedra, you'll see! Yes, I see that shape has 5 faces and one common vertex and it is also base time height divided by three for its volume. As we had gone through this some monts ago where I said that any solid of one common vertex disregard how many faces there are as per a cone they all have the same relation 1/3 of the whole they were derived from. I'm not sure as far what is so difficulte for everyone to accept that if my numbers are always correct why I can not assume 1/2 for a triangles and 1/3 for all solids with one common vertex. > actually, the planar case ("trigon is half > of a tetragon (skware)") is bogus, since > the resulting trigon isn't equigonal > ("triangle isn't equilateral" i.e.), > which again shows the importance of Bucky's dictum: > start with the solids! For eqlat.tri. the formula is same base times height divided by 2 so the whole it was derived from was a rect. We can do this all night, parrallelograms,rhom. acute, abtuse, square,rectan. we always end up with the conclussion of a 1/2 from a whole. anyway, > the blind kids will figure this out, > once you stop blabbing to them > about Zubek's Doob. Well they may will but I doubth you do. You may not know this but there is no geometry classes least not here in Oklahoma, where geometry where i come from was a discipline on it's own, where the Pytha. theor.was thought in the 5 grade here it is mentioned in 8 grade and believe me that 95% of school kids do not know the core meaning and importance of that theorem. Once again obviously you have a no clue as far what is the cube meaning for education incorporating also blind, where all the relations of many concepts can be deduced from this single manipulative. I was not blabing rather I was ammesed how a blind manipulated these forms comprehanding the symetry, proportions and the magnitude of more complex structures. What have you done for education, or for mathematics,science other than just insult people. frank > thus quoth: > Dick, perhaps nothing, but show me a triangle which > is > not a 1/2 of the whole it was derived from, show me > a > tet. which in not 1/3 of the whole it was derived > from > and the last show me a brick smaller than a octane. > Untill than one will have to see that all these > limits > and relations have not been surpased. So it has to > have a relevance regardeles if synergetics or even > geometry accepts it or not. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:46:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: info Comments: To: kalo kaloo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yannis, Unfortunately, the study is not online--yet; however, one can order a copy from the (US) National Technical Information Service (NTIS) http://www.ntis.gov/ . In 1986 it cost $20. Since their search function only goes back to 1990, ask for PB 180051, "A Study of a Prototype Floating Community", by the Triton Foundation, Inc, Nov 1968. Please see also http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetPyramidCityOcean.htm and http://buckminster.info/Ideas/05-OctetFrameworkHollowHarbors.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "kalo kaloo" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 5:15 AM Subject: info > hello.. > My name is Yannis. I am a student and I have a subject about floating community. In your website I saw a "Study of a prototype floating community". Could I download this study? > > Thank you very much. > Yannis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, You might want to review the following two concepts: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity=2.htm http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "frank zubek" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Re: dome math > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > I'll say it, again. > > > > you are simply using the old-timey Greek definition, > > using The Hexahedron as the "fundamental unit," > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:11:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I compliment you again, Joe. You and your site will continue to answer important questions about nature's coordinate system for a long, long time, I hope. I encourage you and praise your work. Simple is best. More with less. Frank, please slow down a notch. Your getting ahead of me. Show me what you are saying is important. Peaceout(did you see 8 mile?) Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Frank, > > You might want to review the following two concepts: > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity=2.htm > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "frank zubek" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: dome math > > > > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > > I'll say it, again. > > > > > > you are simply using the old-timey Greek definition, > > > using The Hexahedron as the "fundamental unit," > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:15:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > As far as the lists go (Geodesic, DomeHome, etc) one > might try contacting > the "owner". > > Regarding the MSN & Yahoo groups, one could go to the > "messages" section & > count the number of senders, but that would not desclose > the number of > "lurkers". > > It's a tough stat to determine. > > BTW, there's a third category that I didn't research: The > newsgroups. Why not list these newsgroups here in this thread, too. Or say how to do this, please. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:08:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Frank, > > You might want to review the following two concepts: > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity=2.htm > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm Joe, the following two concepts are clear to me. The whole point of this disscution was based on the fact that a triangle area is always a 1/2 shape to the whole it was derived from. Since there is no tri. which would not fall under that category it must be a correct statement. It does matter what way one uses to achieve the same result. R cubed times 4.188790205 = volume of a sphere, it does not matter that you or most everybody else use a more elaborated formula than the one above, where the only thing that matter is the answer. If i consider the edge of a reg.tet. as a hypotenuse of a square which is the face of the cube which we derived its volume from. Volume = cube div.by three. The true height of that tet. is 2/3 of the diagonal through the solid cube. Surface area of the reg. tet. is 1/3 of the cube volume. The base area of a reg.tet. times it's true height = a equilateral prism of the same volume as the cube enclosing the same reg. tet. If we divide this prism by three and also the cube we will end up with the same tet. Therefore all shapes of one common vertex have the same relation to the whole they are derived from as does the cube has to a reg. tet. Therefore all shapes of one common vertex are 1/3 of the whole they are derived from. I'm not sure why it is wrong, where there is no wrong way of thinking rather wrong way of interpreting and puting limits to the imagination just because it sound little bit of the ordenirery. I'm not conterdicting any discipline nor I say that it is wrong the way it is. To build a wall by the smallest of bricks I have realized that octet truss is one of few solutions so once again there is no conterdiction only thing is that Fuller demonstrates vectors which reg.tet. is build on and I say that the reg.tet. than is build by the longest of lines where there are no longer lines across or with in. This is not true for any shape. Cube however is completelly opposed to that where the cube is build by the shorthest of lines. Fuller is concern with simplistic structure IVM is.vec. mat. where all energy levels are equal due to they distance from one and other. There is no conterdiction there, however the smallest unit *not* the most effective efficient or what ever but the smallest brick would be the octane. It is .5 in volume to a tet. With in this limit I realize that there is no other brick which can be smaller. So any shape relativelly smaller which is derived from a octane as a B or A mod. is larger in absolute sense as ant is stronger than the elephant. So if one can not build any structure and it does *not* conterdicts Fuller why is it hard to accept that indeed there is a limit of minima when one can not build a smaller brick than the octane if his shortest edge would be the unit measure. The whole concept appears, that to you guys, the ice is not the same as the steam or water. As the graphite is not same as the diamond where the whole rearrangement of the same atoms (carbon) produces different substance. Dick get confused because in a octet truss he can not see 1/2 octas where the ratio of octas to reg.tet is 2 to 1. where by rearrange them I can produce cube, or 1/2 rhomb.or 1/2 parallelogram and still build the wall by the same bricks. Octahedron is made by the smallest of bricks it can not be reduced in to a more elementary shapes evnthough i know we still can keep dissecting but all the successive divisions will not produce nothing smaller in absolute sense. All irregulars contain a octane in they core Fuller just did not go that far. But hey, just build a structure by smaller units than the octane and you proved me wrong, if this is not mathematics in general or synergetic related that's fine, than it is, just a puzzle where no one can beat it. And if no one can beat it, how is it not the absolute limit. frank > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:24:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030430221155.36770.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > I compliment you again, Joe. You and your site will > continue to answer important questions about > nature's > coordinate system for a long, long time, I hope. I > encourage you and praise your work. Simple is best. > More > with less. > > Frank, please slow down a notch. Your getting ahead > of me. > Show me what you are saying is important. Dick, I have just responded to Joe hopefully he may replies. I do respect you all, that what this is all about this site really serves it purpose and I do enjoy it a lot I killing time event hough I can not afford it. I honestly i think, that this subject got deeper than it is necessary because most of all I say is just derived from the surface and it should stay there where the deeper one goes the more distant the surface truth gets. > Peaceout(did you see 8 mile?) > Dick What is it mean? frank > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Frank, > > > > You might want to review the following two > concepts: > > > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity=2.htm > > http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "frank zubek" > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:08 AM > > Subject: Re: dome math > > > > > > > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy > wrote: > > > > I'll say it, again. > > > > > > > > you are simply using the old-timey Greek > definition, > > > > using The Hexahedron as the "fundamental > unit," > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:48:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it was also reported that the number of journalists, as some sort of ratio (per unit of time, I think) was much larger, compared to wars of the 21th "can." ... or did you really mean, "we're in the twenty canS o'*****?" yes, language is a little problem between us, so, you really ought to not just spontaneously reply to our queries, but think them over -- away from the God-am computer. write them out in Humgarian, even, if you haven't done that!... sorry; Magyarese. why do you think that the trigon is merely "derived" from the tetragon, instead of the latter being "built" from the former, as a would-be brick -- just because of the formula that you leanred in the 5th grading?... as you can see from Joe's picture, the tetrahedron has an elementary relation to the hexahedron: one is "instructed" within the other, or the other is "outstructed" around the one; either way, one has a regular tetrahedron & 4 octants of an octahedron. your mystaque, from your description, is twofold, and both of them are elementary. however, since you're not going to part with your money, I won't answer, unless you clarify your proposition: do you claim to have an allapace-filling "smallest" brick, and what exactly is your criterion for grooviest brick, if it's not just somehow smallest? and, if you want to renew your offer, then I'll kick-back half of the $500 (in April 2003 dollars, with regard to inflation) to the school -- on the proviso that *I* shall send it to them, with or without recommendations for curriculum of "manipulables." also, "pay no attention to the 'Dick' behind the screen;" he takes every thing that Bucky said as a sort of shibboleth. thus quoth: It is correct what you are saying in proportion of edge length, however the three edges of a octa. is root 2 and the other three are root 1, which are the shorthest edges of this shape. As I sayid your proportion is still correct. thus quoth: 1/2 octa.or four octane. Octahedron is comprised by 8 octanes in other words this solid octahedron is divided in to 8 identical shapes so octahedron is thus quoth: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:01:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it was also reported that the number of journalists, as some sort of ratio (per unit of time, I think) was much larger, compared to wars of the 21th "can." ... or did you really mean, "we're in the twenty canS o'*****?" yes, language is a little problem between us, so, you really ought to not just spontaneously reply to our queries, but think them over -- away from the God-am computer. write them out in Humgarian, even, if you haven't done that!... sorry; Magyarese. why do you think that the trigon is merely "derived" from the tetragon, instead of the latter being "built" from the former, as a would-be brick -- just because of the formula that you leanred in the 5th grading?... as you can see from Joe's picture, the tetrahedron has an elementary relation to the hexahedron: one is "instructed" within the other, or the other is "outstructed" around the one; either way, one has a regular tetrahedron & 4 octants of an octahedron. your mystaque, from your description, is twofold, and both of them are elementary. however, since you're not going to part with your money, I won't answer, unless you clarify your proposition: do you claim to have an allapace-filling "smallest" brick, and what exactly is your criterion for grooviest brick, if it's not just somehow smallest? and, if you want to renew your offer, then I'll kick-back half of the $500 (in April 2003 dollars, with regard to inflation) to the school -- on the proviso that *I* shall send it to them, with or without recommendations for curriculum of "manipulables." also, "pay no attention to the 'Dick' behind the screen;" he takes every thing that Bucky said as a sort of shibboleth. thus quoth: It is correct what you are saying in proportion of edge length, however the three edges of a octa. is root 2 and the other three are root 1, which are the shorthest edges of this shape. As I sayid your proportion is still correct. thus quoth: 1/2 octa.or four octane. Octahedron is comprised by 8 octanes in other words this solid octahedron is divided in to 8 identical shapes so octahedron is thus quoth: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetGeomUnity.htm --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:12:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, The only two Bucky-related newsgroups that I can find (through my particular internet provider--Comcast CATV) are: alt.bucky-fuller and bit.listserv.geodesic -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Bucky-Related Newsletters > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Dick, > > > > As far as the lists go (Geodesic, DomeHome, etc) one > > might try contacting > > the "owner". > > > > Regarding the MSN & Yahoo groups, one could go to the > > "messages" section & > > count the number of senders, but that would not desclose > > the number of > > "lurkers". > > > > It's a tough stat to determine. > > > > BTW, there's a third category that I didn't research: The > > newsgroups. > > Why not list these newsgroups here in this thread, too. Or > say how to do this, please. > > Dick > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com >