From MAILER-DAEMON  Fri Oct  4 13:58:41 2002
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57])
	by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g94Hwemd024605
	for <Chris@CJFEARNLEY.COM>; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:40 -0400
Message-Id: <200210041758.g94Hwemd024605@linux00.LinuxForce.net>
Received: (qmail 26991 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2002 17:58:38 -0000
Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35)
  by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 4 Oct 2002 17:58:38 -0000
Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:13 -0400
From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)"
              <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      File: "GEODESIC LOG9810"
To: Chris Fearnley <Chris@CJFEARNLEY.COM>
Status: O
Content-Length: 476604
Lines: 11196

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:49:17 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Lawrence E. Couey" <LECouey@INET-1.COM>
Organization: CATT/FX Informationing
Subject:      Re: RBF notebooks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1717179A8FA564F7399D24C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------1717179A8FA564F7399D24C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Cliff,

"Klato varada niktoe". Isn't that from the movie __The Day the Earth
Stood Still__? (What the leading Actress had to say to the robot, before
it vaporized her, to keep it from destroying the earth.)

Clifford J. Nelson wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 1998 2:00 AM, Brian Hutchings
> <mailto:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> ><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-SEP-1998
> 3:00
> >                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
> >
> > dude, we have words for people like yourself
> > (jejeune, picqayune, punctillious, stuffy) !!...  seriously,
> > you must be kdding; oftimes,
> > ther is a bit of ambiguity, due to ellisions;
> > I will "stick the RIGHT word where IT was ellided"; OK?
> >
>
> Thanks for the lesson in modern grammar.
>
> Klato varada niktoe. (³donıt boil anyone² in Clockwork Orange
> lingo).
>
>      Cliff Nelson

--

---------------------------------------------
Lawrence E. Couey
 - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/
     FX Informationing
 - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com
---------------------------------------------
--------------1717179A8FA564F7399D24C0
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Lawrence E. Couey
n:              Couey;Lawrence E.
org:            CATT/FX Informationing
email;internet: LECouey@inet-1.com
title:          Senior R&D Software Engineer
tel;work:       801.489.8773
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------1717179A8FA564F7399D24C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:56:03 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Lawrence E. Couey" <LECouey@INET-1.COM>
Organization: CATT/FX Informationing
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone
Comments: To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B1B386F129D593892A213937"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------B1B386F129D593892A213937
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"The Philosophers' Stone" today it is searched for under other names!!:

        Publisher's Clearing House
        The Lottery

Spaceship Earth wrote:
>
> 'I do not have any friends who can tell me so much with
> so few words as do the stones. In their own way, they
> are eloquent.' -- Buckminster Fuller
>
>                 The Philosophers' Stone
>           The Secrets of Matter Revealed
>
> Throughout the ages, the greatest scientists of all
> time searched diligently for the Philosophers' Stone.
> And from this search, the foundation stones of
> modern chemistry were laid. Then, suddenly in the
> modern age, the search for the Philosophers' Stone
> was abandoned as fruitless and superstitious.
>
> What is the Philosophers' Stone? Why did the greatest
> scientist throughout the ages search for it? What did
> they hope to gain? And why, after searching for
> thousands of years, did modern science suddenly
> abandon the search?
>
> The Philosophers' Stone is the elixir of life. It holds
> mysterious transformative powers over matter.
> Possession of the Philosophers' Stone would assure
> health, wealth and long life. The Philosophers' Stone
> promised to transform the human condition from one
> of poverty and lack to a world of richness and
> abundance.
>
> Another name for the Philosophers' Stone was 'chaos.'
> The great minds of science founded alchemy upon the
> premises that all organization in nature arose from chaos.
> They could not have been more wrong! With the new
> understanding that the organizing principle in nature is
> Synergy, we now realize, we're just a stone's throw
> away from discovering the Philosophers' Stone, and the
> search begins anew.
>
> Travel through thousands of years of human history to
> finally discover the Philosophers' Stone -- the
> foundation stone of alchemy -- and the keystone to
> world transformation. The Philosophers' Stone -- it's
> not a myth!
>
> The Philosophers' Stone is one of may projects that
> will be featured on the coming Spaceship Earth
> website, and later moved to it's own
> PhilosophersStone.com site. I hope you enjoy this
> brief introduction and that it will stimulate your
> imagination.

--

---------------------------------------------
Lawrence E. Couey
 - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/
     FX Informationing
 - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com
---------------------------------------------
--------------B1B386F129D593892A213937
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Lawrence E. Couey
n:              Couey;Lawrence E.
org:            CATT/FX Informationing
email;internet: LECouey@inet-1.com
title:          Senior R&D Software Engineer
tel;work:       801.489.8773
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------B1B386F129D593892A213937--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:54:29 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Ken G. Brown" <kbrown@TNC.COM>
Subject:      Packing/Tiling/Lattices
Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In doing a little www searching related to spherical tilings I came across
these interesting mathematical links.
Ken

---------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Huson
<http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~huson/>

Papers and Software
Tiling programs: RepTiles & FunTiles
<http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~huson/papers.html>

Olaf Delgado's home page
<http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~delgado/>

Zonotiles - Olaf Delgado's Cool Java tiling applet
Tilings from dualized line arrangements
based on original work by Jochen Bohne and Stefan Fischer
<http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~delgado/zono.html>

Center for Discrete Mathematics and Theoretical Computer Science (DIMACS)
<http://www.dimacs.rutgers.edu/>

DIMACS/IAS Workshop on Randomized and Derandomized Algorithms for Discrete
Structures
<http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Randomized/announcement.html>

Workshop on Algorithm Engineering and Experimentation
<http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Algorithm/>

Neil J. A. Sloane: Home Page
AT&T Fellow, AT&T Shannon Labs
<http://www.research.att.com/~njas/>

Introduction to 3rd edition [postscript, pdf] of Sphere Packings, Lattices
and Groups covering developments in the past decade, with 800 new
references [Sept 16 1998].
J. H. Conway and N. J. A. Sloane
<http://www.research.att.com/~njas/doc/splag.html>

___________________________________________________________________
Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng.        email <kbrown@tnc.com>
Box 3973                             Phone: 403.986.9097
Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6M8         Fax: 403.986.5299
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:53:56 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Re: A and B Modules in 'The Geometrical Foundation of Natural
Structure' vs. in 'Synergetics'

Trevor recently returned from the Bay Area and gifted me with a
copy of 'The Geometrical Foundation of Natural Structure' by
Robert Williams (NY: Dover Publications, 1972). I've browsed
this book many times (Koski and Chu both had copies as I
recall) but in the last hour I went through it in more detail,
in part because Trevor had done some advance legwork by (a)
finding where Williams introduces the A module and (b) by
stating he hadn't found Fuller's concentric hierarchy of
volumes (tetrahedron=1, cube=3, rh dodeca=6 etc.).

This post will mean most to those with a copy and want to check
the page numbers I'm about to reference.  I may get around to
doing a web version of this post, with some scans of the relevant
graphics, for those without access to the relevant tomes.  I'm
also filing this with the University of Buffalo (GEODESIC
listserv) for linking from my modules.html webpage.

===

Fig. 3-4 on pg. 59 shows "the orthoscheme" of the cube {4,3} --
how the cube can be broken into left and right tetrahedra by a
disassembly algorithm credited to Schlafli (1901).  What's
depicted here is what Fuller calls a MITE, and notes is described
by Coxeter in 'Regular Polytopes' (pg. 71) minus Fuller's
proposed name for it (MInimum TEtrahedron or MITE), and
without noting its disassembly into 2 A mods + 1 B mod, for
which Fuller takes credit (see 950.12, and Fig. 950.12 in
Synergetics).[1]

On pg. 135 Fig. 4-39, we get the same orthoscheming algorithm
applied to 1/4 tetrahedra (t/4), giving us the 24 'A' modules,
which Williams identifies as such.  Fuller is credited in
footnote 18 for "a simple and elegant method of determining
volumes of certain polyhedra with 4.3.2 symmetry...based on two
special cases of Schlafli's orthoscheme." (pg. 134).  Fig. 4-39
is special case #1.  Special case #2 is shown in Fig. 4-41,
with the fractionation of the octahedron {3,4} into modules.

Footnote 20 is key, as here Fuller is again credited, but a
terminological discrepancy is noted:  Williams is going to
hence forth use 'B' to mean 1/6th of oc/8 (the caption to Fig.
4-41 has a typo in my edition -- those are the six 'B' ortho-
schemes, not 'A's as per Fig. 4-39).  Williams writes:

  [20] Fuller, R.B. 1960. Energetic Synergetic Geometry.
  (manuscript on file at the School of Architecture Library,
  Washington University, St. Louis, Mo.), further subdivides the
  'B' in half such that {3,4} is composed of forty-eight 'A'
  units and forty-eight other units that he called "B particles".

In otherwords, although Fuller is credited for realizing that
orthoschemes of t/4 and oc/8 give an elegant modular basis for
measuring the volumes of 4.3.2 symmetry, Williams is going to
use a B module that contains an A module, giving his B a volume
of 1/12 (vis-a-vis a regular tet of volume 1) instead of a volume
of 1/24 (same as the A module).  For the rest of the book, Williams
uses 'B' in a way different from Fuller's usage (but easily
convertible).

If we define 'B mod' (or 'B particle') the way Fuller does, then
we will find that the orthoscheme of c/6 shown in 3-4 (mentioned
earlier, pg. 59) is in fact 2A + B = MITE (c/6 is a what Fuller
calls a half-coupler).

Later in the book, Williams gets into space-filling and sphere
packing and the ccp (cube-centric packing) in particular.  The ccp
is of course equivalent to the fcc and the packing identified with
Fuller's IVM (same as octet truss, attributed to Bell pg. 4).  When
you embed polyhedra in the ccp (construct them by aligning vertices
with sphere centers), you tend to change the edge ratios to those
Fuller used (as synergetics is likewise invested in the IVM as our
uniform context for polyvertexial systems).

Therefore, further on in the book, we find Table 5-1 (pp 183-184)
which is attributed to Fuller, Pearce, and Williams (the author).
Note the last column (Volume):  this is where we finally start to
see the familiar concentric hierarchy of Synergetics, i.e. (skipping
some rows and columns):

      Polyhedron              As   Bs  Volume
      ------------------------------------------
      Unitary Tetrahedron     24    -    1.0000
      {4,3} [cube]            24   24    3.0000
      {3,4} [octahedron]      -    48    4.0000
      V(3.4)2 [rh dodeca]     48   48    6.0000
      {3,5} [icosa]           -    -    18.5125
      (3.4)2 [cubocta or VE] 192  144   20.0000

      Table 5.1 (edited) in Williams

The only difference between this table and straight synergetics
is that the Williams B = Fuller's A+B, so every Williams B
needs to be divided into an A and a B, with the As adding to
the existing A column.  This gives us:

      Polyhedron              As   Bs  Volume
      ------------------------------------------
      Unitary Tetrahedron     24    -    1.0000
      {4,3} [cube]            48   24    3.0000
      {3,4} [octahedron]      48   48    4.0000
      V(3.4)2 [rh dodeca]     96   48    6.0000
      {3,5} [icosa]           -    -    18.5125
      (3.4)2 [cubocta or VE] 336  144   20.0000

      Table 5.1 (edited), converted using identity
      Williams 'B' = Fuller 'A' + Fuller 'B'

Compare the above "corrected" chart with Table 943.00 (pg. 532)
in Synergetics (vol. 1) or color plate #9 (vol. 2)[2] to see this
jibes with Fuller's A and B mod counts for these same volumes.

Williams wrote his book before 'Synergetics' was published by
Macmillan in 1975 and may not have fully comprehended Fuller's
A and B scheme, as distinct from Schlafli's "orthoscheme" -- or
had his own reasons with going with his alternative.

Given that the Williams B mod contains an A mod (as defined by
both Fuller and Williams), it makes sense to reconcile the 'B'
in favor of Fuller's usage, as this gives both mods the same
volume, plus picks up the space-filling MITE as 2A + B, and
gives more freedoms to construct the shapes (including
alternative assemblies of the same shape).[3]

Kirby

NOTES:

[1] The caption to Fig. 950.12 is where Fuller is most
meticuluous about documenting his contribution re the MITE and
A and B modules, vis-a-vis Coxeter's stuff.

[2] http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/plates/figs/plate09.html

[3] In addition, Fuller attaches relevance in the surface:
volume ratio and their "energy conserver" vs. "energy exporter"
characteristics -- the basis of ongoing explorations the elements
of which get lost in the shuffle when the Williams-Schlafli 'B'
module is used.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:55:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEW DOME MANUF
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Primadome: Geodesic domes specially designed to house nonhuman primates.

http://www.primadome.com/

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:05:16 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(I didn't see this posted on the GEODESIC list, but I'm cross posting it anyway.)

John McGloine wrote:
>But what will the next event be to control the population explosion.  My thought
>is that there will always be events that allow some men to survive on this planet.

Life-support development is the only event that controls human population growth,
unless you're referring to ultimate control leading to extinction. (Extinction of
organisms is occurring at perhaps the highest rate in 65 million years. Can humans
be far behind?) All other events, such as famine, war, disease, etc., result in
only temporary, isolated reductions in population growth. The population rebounds.
Organisms, including humans, are genetically programed to make such population
adjustments when threatened. Throughout history, human populations have been
hit by plagues, famines and wars, and these problems have never controlled the
population explosion, as evidenced by the ever upward ticking human numbers.
These events do in fact caused population increases. I can give an example of
the fire ant problem in the Southern United States. Researchers say that fire
ant
mounds are spaced remotely from one another if you leave them alone, but
because we have tried to control them, fields are now covered with fire ant
mounds. They are genetically programed to make these population adjustments
when under threat, and the fire ants have won. I don't know the answer to
reducing the number of fire ants (other than leaving them alone), but the
proven answer to reducing human population growth is the development of
life-support resources.

>Not sure of the name of the person who put forth the theory of mother
>earth as a living organism i.e. Gia(spelling).

The name of the person who put out the theory of mother Earth as a living organism
(Gaia) is lost in the mist of time. This idea was a part of ancient cultures, and
is still a part of remaining indigenous cultures. In recent years, James Lovelock
has done much to bring the idea to the masses and to promote it's study by the
sciences.

>We will find a cure for Aids (or what it truly is) in the future probably never
>for starvation.

We may not have a cure for AIDS yet, but there is a cure for starvation -- food.

Roger Revelle, former director of the Harvard Center for Population Studies,
estimates world agriculture resources are capable of supporting 40 billion, or more
than 6 times the currant population. The African continent alone is capable of
feeding 10 billion, over 4 billion more than the world's population and about 20
times Africa's current population. Raj Krishna, an Indian economist, claims India
has the potential of feeding not only the people of India itself, but the entire
population of the world. John Jeavons estimates that we could return perhaps
94% of the earth's land back to nature, by growing our food using simple
intensive
garden methods that have been developed. The late R. Buckminster Fuller
claimed that the entire population of the world could comfortably live on the
island of
Japan, and that the Earth is capable of supporting a population of 2-4
TRILLION. Biologist, Francis P. Felice has shown that all the people of the
world could be put into the state of Texas forming one giant city with a
population density similar to many existing cities, and leaving the rest of
the world empty for agriculture, nature
preservation and other activities. Of course this would still leave the rest
of the
universe empty. We only need to preserve the biological resources of the Earth that
are the source of our life-support sustenance to make the rest of the cosmos
habitable for future generations of human colonies. (But I'm not advocating space
colonization for the purpose of reducing population pressures on Earth. Just saying
that there is still room for growth.)

Regards,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:07:12 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lawrence E. Couey wrote:

> >"The Philosophers' Stone" today it is searched for under other names!!:
>
> >        Publisher's Clearing House
> >       The Lottery

> Lawrence:

> That's cute. Maybe I can include it in the story line. Those are
> illusions that people chase and they reduce the quality of life for
> individuals and are a detriment to society. They offer no hope for
> achieving a world without poverty. I witnessed a person whose life is
> wrecked by an addiction to the lottery. He agreed with me that the
> lottery is a crime against humanity, but he can't stop. Many peoples
> lives have been wrecked by the sudden wealth created by these prizes.
> Funny, I've never heard of anyone that won these prizes that did
> anything for the benefit of humankind. Although I would think that many
> probably have. If you have illusions of winning the lottery, you
> probably have no illusions about the betterment of humankind.

Regards,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com

> Spaceship Earth wrote:
> >
> > 'I do not have any friends who can tell me so much with
> > so few words as do the stones. In their own way, they
> > are eloquent.' -- Buckminster Fuller
> >
> >                 The Philosophers' Stone
> >           The Secrets of Matter Revealed
> >
> > Throughout the ages, the greatest scientists of all
> > time searched diligently for the Philosophers' Stone.
> > And from this search, the foundation stones of
> > modern chemistry were laid. Then, suddenly in the
> > modern age, the search for the Philosophers' Stone
> > was abandoned as fruitless and superstitious.
> >
> > What is the Philosophers' Stone? Why did the greatest
> > scientist throughout the ages search for it? What did
> > they hope to gain? And why, after searching for
> > thousands of years, did modern science suddenly
> > abandon the search?
> >
> > The Philosophers' Stone is the elixir of life. It holds
> > mysterious transformative powers over matter.
> > Possession of the Philosophers' Stone would assure
> > health, wealth and long life. The Philosophers' Stone
> > promised to transform the human condition from one
> > of poverty and lack to a world of richness and
> > abundance.
> >
> > Another name for the Philosophers' Stone was 'chaos.'
> > The great minds of science founded alchemy upon the
> > premises that all organization in nature arose from chaos.
> > They could not have been more wrong! With the new
> > understanding that the organizing principle in nature is
> > Synergy, we now realize, we're just a stone's throw
> > away from discovering the Philosophers' Stone, and the
> > search begins anew.
> >
> > Travel through thousands of years of human history to
> > finally discover the Philosophers' Stone -- the
> > foundation stone of alchemy -- and the keystone to
> > world transformation. The Philosophers' Stone -- it's
> > not a myth!
> >
> > The Philosophers' Stone is one of may projects that
> > will be featured on the coming Spaceship Earth
> > website, and later moved to it's own
> > PhilosophersStone.com site. I hope you enjoy this
> > brief introduction and that it will stimulate your
> > imagination.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:21:02 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Packing/Tiling/Lattices
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ken,
You wrote:
<<In doing a little www searching related to spherical tilings I came
across
these interesting mathematical links.>>

   You left one out.  URL:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy

     This page not only gives the structure for the "Philosopher's Stone"=

it also gives the progressive spherical  concentricities in fractal form
which ties in the oct-tet to the 5 fold symetry of the dodecahedron and
icosahedron type structures, relating to the inorganic versus the organic=

condition.  This is a page devoted primarily to 3D fractals, which is mor=
e
in line with how Nature presents itself.
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:54:34 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@GTE.NET>
Organization: gte.net
Subject:      Re: RBF notebooks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Oct 1, 1998 1:49 AM, Lawrence E. Couey
<mailto:LECouey@INET-1.COM> wrote:
>Cliff,
>
>"Klato varada niktoe". Isn't that from the movie __The Day the Earth
>Stood Still__? (What the leading Actress had to say to the robot,
before
>it vaporized her, to keep it from destroying the earth.)
>

Thanks, I couldn=B9t remember the title of the movie (circa 1958?).
Who played the leading male role?

>>
>> Klato varada niktoe. (=B3don=B9t boil anyone=B2 in Clockwork Orange
>> lingo).
>>

I looked up the words in a Russian-English language dictionary.

    Cliff Nelson
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:54:12 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Shelter, Energy" <glynn@GLYNNBEBEE.ORG>
Subject:      Re: RBF notebooks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

in the movie Army of Darkness, too.  funny.

glynn

>"Klato varada niktoe". Isn't that from the movie __The Day the Earth
>Stood Still__? (What the leading Actress had to say to the robot,
before
>it vaporized her, to keep it from destroying the earth.)
>

>Thanks, I couldn9t remember the title of the movie (circa 1958?).
>Who played the leading male role?

>>
>> Klato varada niktoe. (3don9t boil anyone2 in Clockwork Orange
>> lingo).
>>

>I looked up the words in a Russian-English language dictionary.

  >  Cliff Nelson
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:44:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      02-OCT-1998  3:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops; I deleted that one about the "3d fractals" and
 a systemization of the shapes.  it sounded better than Bucky's
 which happens to be "optimized" for edge-lengths,
 owing apparently to the usual visual (stick-figure) representation
 of the shapes, and I was wondering if ti was similar to mine --
 could "you" post that, again?
    it was very nice, to be reminded that the "c/48" is that same
 as the Mite, or 2 As and 1 B, although I'd prefer h/48
 (following Bucky Saith, we ought eschew cubical obsfucation .-)...
 one might also note uh nevermind (I had some thing about "R-mods",
 from years ago, but I just realized it may be mystaquen, or
 I was that .-)

 --The End of History (if he had won; it's just a remaindered ****, now)
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:59:36 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: he Philosophers' Stone

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      02-OCT-1998  3:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 too bad, you have to flavor this stuff
 with the Head Twit of the Royal Society,
 with you \r obvious reference to Newton;
 as Lawd Keynes saith,
 he was not the first of the scientists, but the last of the Magi
 (based upon reading the infamous materials on alchemy,
 that he bought at auction .-)  unfortunately,
 the Cult of newton was propogated by the Empire,
 to the detriment of English Science for a century,
 compared to the Continent's use of the calculus
 (that is, Leibniz's beautiful notation versus Newton's "dotage",
 although it *is* better for certain things (what ever they are .-)
    what convinced you taht alchemical eschatology is worth **** ??

 (see the essay on the "dead hand" of Venice upon science,
 at http://www.tarpley.net (the right-hand book),
 for a full explanation of all of this.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:32:02 -0500
Reply-To:     jlawson@texnet.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         james lawson <jlawson@TEXNET.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brian:

In Cosmography, page 84-85, Buckminster Fuller is critical of
Newton, and states, 'Much of Newton's work must be considered political tour
de force -- British "science" in support of Great Britain's claim to the
leadership of world science as backed by the world's supreme power structure.'
In short, the British left science in the Dark Ages so they could pump up the
empire. (Does anyone have a MS Word or other format version of Cosmography
they would share for research purposes? Those Word versions of Critical Path
and GRUNCH of Giants are great assets.)

The moral of the Philosophers' Stone is that Newton and the alchemist were wrong.
Synergetics is right. But there are many "secrets" to the philosophers stone.
That's why I plan on making it a project with it's own website.

I made no reference to Newton. Newton was just one in a long line of
scientists-philosophers who sought to discover the philosophers' stone.

You obviously look for a conspiracy in everything? Don't be tricked into pulling
the troops back to fight these diversions. Keep the troops focused on the
strategic battle at the front -- the Design Science Revolution.

'I resolved never to attack or oppose undesirable socioeconomic
phenomena, but instead committed myself to evolving and
cultivating tools that would accomplish humanity's necessitous
tasks in so much easier, more pleasant, and more efficient ways
that, without thinking about it, the undesirable ways would be
abandoned by society.' -- Buckminster Fuller

Brian Hutchings wrote:
>
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      02-OCT-1998  3:59
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  too bad, you have to flavor this stuff
>  with the Head Twit of the Royal Society,
>  with you \r obvious reference to Newton;
>  as Lawd Keynes saith,
>  he was not the first of the scientists, but the last of the Magi
>  (based upon reading the infamous materials on alchemy,
>  that he bought at auction .-)  unfortunately,
>  the Cult of newton was propogated by the Empire,
>  to the detriment of English Science for a century,
>  compared to the Continent's use of the calculus
>  (that is, Leibniz's beautiful notation versus Newton's "dotage",
>  although it *is* better for certain things (what ever they are .-)
>     what convinced you taht alchemical eschatology is worth **** ??
>
>  (see the essay on the "dead hand" of Venice upon science,
>  at http://www.tarpley.net (the right-hand book),
>  for a full explanation of all of this.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:07:02 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         JasonM4320 <jasonm4320@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone

mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM wrote:

>Another name for the Philosophers' Stone was 'chaos.'
>The great minds of science founded alchemy upon the
>premises that all organization in nature arose from chaos.

The traditional names are Lapis, Massa Confusa, or Prima Materia.
Attaining it, via the alchemical process of the spirit, which was often
symbolically modeled by a kind of proto-chemistry, is to transcend the laws of
opposites and gain metaphysical insights, and therein lies the transformative
power.  This at a time when the distinction bewteen science and religion was
much blurrier than now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:22:33 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
In-Reply-To:  <199810021044.DAA01918@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:44:08 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      02-OCT-1998  3:44
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> oops; I deleted that one about the "3d fractals" and
> a systemization of the shapes.  it sounded better than Bucky's
> which happens to be "optimized" for edge-lengths,

Koski's self-recursive T-mod and additional equi-volumed tetramods,
carved from the same golden cubic (and phi-scaled up and down) seem
to me a more elegant system for modularizing the 5-fold symmetric
shapes than the one proposed.  Yashushi Kajikawa also developed a
scheme of note. Neither of these scholars may be known to this "3D
fractals" webmaster.

> owing apparently to the usual visual (stick-figure) representation
> of the shapes, and I was wondering if ti was similar to mine --
> could "you" post that, again?

Your thesis that edge-optimization has to do with a 'stick figure'
representation is bogus.  You get the concentric hierarchy when
you commit to viewing the shapes in the context of the ccp (= fcc
= ivm).  Doesn't matter if the shapes are depicted as 'wireframe'
or 'solid' (Robert Williams in 'The Geometrical Foundation of
Natural Structure' goes with the conventional 'solid' depictions).

Synergetics is just as able to turn up the frequency to whatever
atomic level "voxel" resolutions, if you insist on 'solid' marble
or granite renderings. The 'texture' is irrelevant to the underlying
pre-frequency coordinating system.

>    it was very nice, to be reminded that the "c/48" is that same
> as the Mite, or 2 As and 1 B, although I'd prefer h/48

'h' for 'hexahedron' I presume.

> (following Bucky Saith, we ought eschew cubical obsfucation .-)...

'h' just makes it worse.  Cube is fine.  Too many kids look at a
cube and call it a 'square' -- we're sliding backwards, even as
we win the war in a 'beyond flatland' context.

> one might also note uh nevermind (I had some thing about "R-mods",
> from years ago, but I just realized it may be mystaquen, or
> I was that .-)
>

No one likely to have your R-mod stuff easily recallable minus
a lot of digging in some archive or other, so if you want people
to track it, you'll have to do the recalling yourself.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:52:40 +1200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Adrian van der Meijden <afme@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Organization: The Internet Group Ltd
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone

Oh, golly, Your; discovered it too, keep going, it's there to be found, not
intellectual, but intuituive+
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:14:35 GMT
Reply-To:     wolfbat359@mindspring.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Donald L Ferry <wolfbat359@MINDSPRING.COM>
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Subject:      Re: Brandnames/SNs --> Oracle

urner@alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>wolfbat359@mindspring.com (Donald L Ferry) wrote:
>
>>
>>You mean like the way the US and Britian supplies Indonesia to take
>>care of the East Timorses???
>
>
>We should review some history here. Both Indonesia and East
>Timor were under Euro-imperial administrations pre-WWII, but
>under different ones (Dutch and Portugese respectively).  Part
>of Japan's legacy (the invading power during WWII) was to train
>a next generation in an "Asia for Asians" outlook, using
>irrelevant genetic markers to determine "Asian".[1]
>
>With the departure of Japanese forces, Indonesia came under mob
>rule as racists indoctrinated by their former Japanese masters
>ran amuk, pushing any Indonesian residents with "non-Asian
>blood" (a pseudo-scientific term in this context) to flee the
>country (or be killed).[2] The same racism flares up against
>those of Chinese heritage in the region from time to time
>(historically speaking, the Chinese thread has premeated the
>Pacific Rim for ages, intertwined with shipping and commerce --
>and good food).
>
>So the Indonesians have a point when accusing the Portugese of
>self-righteous posturing, as their claims to East Timor were
>at least equally bogus.  However the Portugese were never so
>ideologically driven and brutal as the Indonesian government in
>that area (partly because the weaponry continued to evolve --
>had gotten much uglier by the end of WWII, with psyches to match).
>
>Indonesia's Soeharto government fell under the cold war spell
>(during the so-called "superpowers" era) and carried out massive
>campaigns against its poor (so-called "communists") inside the
>country (est. 500,000 killed 1965-66) as well as against Timorese
>-- all in the name of keeping those "dominos" from falling (the
>LAWCAP-puppet USA was quietly supportive, providing lots of ammo
>and training).[3]
>
>Indonesia is more like another Vietnam in which LAWCAP was
>gloriously victorious (although in retrospect, it turns out the
>Vietnamese are open to the same kinds of commercial venturing,
>is just as likely to host a profitable manufacturing plant as
>the Indonesians are).
>
>Post-WWII, former colonies where USA-style policies were in
>effect (the USA being the puppet of LAWCAP post-WWII [4])  you
>tended to get authoritarian governments and a widening
>rich-poor gap, as in the Philippines and Central America.
>
>Paradoxically, this widening rich-poor gap is bad for business,
>makes for an unstable investments climate, which is why
>Japanese executives have been eyeing Vietnam over the
>Philippines of late, as the former has a more egalitarian
>social structure, less miserable poverty with a student class
>ready to blow (it blew in Indonesia recently -- small
>wonder).[5]
>
>Note that pre-LAWCAP USA was pro-Ho at the end of WWII but
>defected to become an imperial power under the Dulles brothers,
>meaning it had to fight against its own weapons (shipped from
>Okinawa, post called-off invasion of Japan) after triggering a
>massive migration of Tonkin Vietnamese into the southern
>territory (setting the stage for a guerilla uprising in the
>countryside among the landless displaced).[6]
>
>This was a very profitable venture for LAWCAP, as the Vietnam
>war consumed vast numbers of helicopters (among other
>weaponry), drove the procurement cycle through many turns of
>the wheel (spinning off a lot of vets, KIAs and MIAs in the
>process -- with taxpayers picking up most of the tab).[7]
>
>Kirby
>
Well!  Let us review the logic there.  We intervened in Vietnam to
keep the Commies from running amock and killing everybody in site.
When Vietbnam fell, there was essentially no blood bath in Vietnam.
But Indonesia the Moral and Ethical Place where American's true path
for the people was to blosom - well er they invaded another person's
territory (gee wasn't that why we fought the commies = to prevent
that) and kill 1/3 of the people in East Timor.  A bllood bath by any
name.  And an act we said our power,prestiage and morality was in Asia
to prevent = and we loved it!!!! = See Moynihan on da subject!!!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:20:53 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brandnames/SNs --> Oracle
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

wolfbat359@mindspring.com (Donald L Ferry) wrote:

>
>You mean like the way the US and Britian supplies Indonesia to take
>care of the East Timorses???


We should review some history here. Both Indonesia and East
Timor were under Euro-imperial administrations pre-WWII, but
under different ones (Dutch and Portugese respectively).  Part
of Japan's legacy (the invading power during WWII) was to train
a next generation in an "Asia for Asians" outlook, using
irrelevant genetic markers to determine "Asian".[1]

With the departure of Japanese forces, Indonesia came under mob
rule as racists indoctrinated by their former Japanese masters
ran amuk, pushing any Indonesian residents with "non-Asian
blood" (a pseudo-scientific term in this context) to flee the
country (or be killed).[2] The same racism flares up against
those of Chinese heritage in the region from time to time
(historically speaking, the Chinese thread has premeated the
Pacific Rim for ages, intertwined with shipping and commerce --
and good food).

So the Indonesians have a point when accusing the Portugese of
self-righteous posturing, as their claims to East Timor were
at least equally bogus.  However the Portugese were never so
ideologically driven and brutal as the Indonesian government in
that area (partly because the weaponry continued to evolve --
had gotten much uglier by the end of WWII, with psyches to match).

Indonesia's Soeharto government fell under the cold war spell
(during the so-called "superpowers" era) and carried out massive
campaigns against its poor (so-called "communists") inside the
country (est. 500,000 killed 1965-66) as well as against Timorese
-- all in the name of keeping those "dominos" from falling (the
LAWCAP-puppet USA was quietly supportive, providing lots of ammo
and training).[3]

Indonesia is more like another Vietnam in which LAWCAP was
gloriously victorious (although in retrospect, it turns out the
Vietnamese are open to the same kinds of commercial venturing,
is just as likely to host a profitable manufacturing plant as
the Indonesians are).

Post-WWII, former colonies where USA-style policies were in
effect (the USA being the puppet of LAWCAP post-WWII [4])  you
tended to get authoritarian governments and a widening
rich-poor gap, as in the Philippines and Central America.

Paradoxically, this widening rich-poor gap is bad for business,
makes for an unstable investments climate, which is why
Japanese executives have been eyeing Vietnam over the
Philippines of late, as the former has a more egalitarian
social structure, less miserable poverty with a student class
ready to blow (it blew in Indonesia recently -- small
wonder).[5]

Note that pre-LAWCAP USA was pro-Ho at the end of WWII but
defected to become an imperial power under the Dulles brothers,
meaning it had to fight against its own weapons (shipped from
Okinawa, post called-off invasion of Japan) after triggering a
massive migration of Tonkin Vietnamese into the southern
territory (setting the stage for a guerilla uprising in the
countryside among the landless displaced).[6]

This was a very profitable venture for LAWCAP, as the Vietnam
war consumed vast numbers of helicopters (among other
weaponry), drove the procurement cycle through many turns of
the wheel (spinning off a lot of vets, KIAs and MIAs in the
process -- with taxpayers picking up most of the tab).[7]

Kirby


Notes:

[1] The concept of 'race' is bogus pseudo-science, left over from
    the Nazi era. http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/terms.html#race

[2] My stepdaughter's father-in-law experienced internment by the
    Japanese in Indonesia during WWII, then fled to Holland to avoid
    execution by the racist gangs, given some inter-marriage in the
    family. He joined the Dutch military, later moved to the US (2nd
    wife from Oregon) and his sons, including my step son-in-law,
    tend to be military as well (Alexia married into the 101st
    Airborne).

[3] until more recently, when USA covert ops during RBF's "design
    science decade" (approx. 1985-1995) have started to pay
    dividends (the USA is a LAWCAP puppet no more, believe it or
    not)

[4] see 'Critical Path' (St. Martins Press, 1979) by R. Buckminster
    Fuller (awarded USA Medal of Freedom by Ronald Reagan in 1981).

[5] this analysis of Japanese investments favoring Vietnam
    over the Philippines because of rich-poor gap issues is from
    Walden Bello, shared during an AFSC meeting in Portland (he's
    also published this analysis -- now writes for Focus on Trade
    out of Bangkok, which I get).

[6] See Col. Fletcher Prouty's 'JFK' (Birch Lane Press, 1992)

[7] See Col. Fletcher Prouty's website for more info re how LAWCAP
    has avoided paying insurance policies to Vietnam-era military
    families, by keeping their loved ones classified as MIAs (and
    therefore ineligible to received life insurance benefits)
    http://www.astridmm.com/prouty/wash-20.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:09:55 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@GTE.NET>
Organization: gte.net
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Newton only wrote one book about the calculus and it wasn=B9t
published until about two hundred and fifty years later, so, was
Newton=B9s notation for the calculus even known until about 1960?

     Cliff Nelson

>Brian Hutchings wrote:
>>
>> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      02-OCT-1998
3:59
>>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>>
>>  too bad, you have to flavor this stuff
>>  with the Head Twit of the Royal Society,
>>  with you \r obvious reference to Newton;
>>  as Lawd Keynes saith,
>>  he was not the first of the scientists, but the last of the Magi
>>  (based upon reading the infamous materials on alchemy,
>>  that he bought at auction .-)  unfortunately,
>>  the Cult of newton was propogated by the Empire,
>>  to the detriment of English Science for a century,
>>  compared to the Continent's use of the calculus
>>  (that is, Leibniz's beautiful notation versus Newton's "dotage",
>>  although it *is* better for certain things (what ever they are .-)
>>     what convinced you taht alchemical eschatology is worth **** ??
>>
>>  (see the essay on the "dead hand" of Venice upon science,
>>  at http://www.tarpley.net (the right-hand book),
>>  for a full explanation of all of this.)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:15:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      AI's Website
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

American Ingenuity Dome Homes

http://www.aidomes.com/

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:26:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Dome Tech
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dome Technology's new web site:

http://www.dometech.com/index.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:36:17 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Lawrence E. Couey" <LECouey@INET-1.COM>
Organization: CATT/FX Informationing
Subject:      Re: RBF notebooks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4DEDB3A5A6BDE5D80AFC4307"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------4DEDB3A5A6BDE5D80AFC4307
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I believe it was Michael Rennie (forgive the misspelling, remembering
names is hard enough for me, much less remembering the spelling too! ;-)

Lawrence C.

Clifford J. Nelson wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 1998 1:49 AM, Lawrence E. Couey
> <mailto:LECouey@INET-1.COM> wrote:
> >Cliff,
> >
> >"Klato varada niktoe". Isn't that from the movie __The Day the Earth
> >Stood Still__? (What the leading Actress had to say to the robot,
> before
> >it vaporized her, to keep it from destroying the earth.)
> >
>
> Thanks, I couldnıt remember the title of the movie (circa 1958?).
> Who played the leading male role?
>
> >>
> >> Klato varada niktoe. (³donıt boil anyone² in Clockwork Orange
> >> lingo).
> >>
>
> I looked up the words in a Russian-English language dictionary.
>
>     Cliff Nelson

--

---------------------------------------------
Lawrence E. Couey
 - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/
     FX Informationing
 - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com
---------------------------------------------
--------------4DEDB3A5A6BDE5D80AFC4307
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Lawrence E. Couey
n:              Couey;Lawrence E.
org:            CATT/FX Informationing
email;internet: LECouey@inet-1.com
title:          Senior R&D Software Engineer
tel;work:       801.489.8773
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------4DEDB3A5A6BDE5D80AFC4307--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 04:11:57 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >Another name for the Philosophers' Stone was 'chaos.'
> >The great minds of science founded alchemy upon the
> >premises that all organization in nature arose from chaos.
>
> The traditional names are Lapis, Massa Confusa, or Prima Materia.
> Attaining it, via the alchemical process of the spirit, which was often
> symbolically modeled by a kind of proto-chemistry, is to transcend the laws of
> opposites and gain metaphysical insights, and therein lies the transformative
> power.  This at a time when the distinction bewteen science and religion was
> much blurrier than now.

The philosophers' stone was given many names. According to the document, Names
of the Philosophers' Stone (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/gratacol.html), it
was called almost everything you can imagine. On the one had this shows the
chaos and confusion surrounding the philosophers' stone. On the other hand it
shows a comprehensive nature (the philosophers stone was everything) which
fits well with synergetics. All it takes is a little insight and intuition to
put a spin
on things and use the fable of the philosophers' stone to create another fable
with truths and insights that are relevant to our times -- truths to inspire
the achievement of the ultimate goal of the philosophers' stone which was a
world without poverty. If you look beyond the selfishness, greed and ignorance that
surrounded alchemy, you'll see that this was the goal of some alchemist. If
you look
beyond the selfishness, greed, pollution, and chaos of the modern chemical
industry, the betterment of humanity is the underlying theme. It's certainly
the bedrock of Synergetics.

>Oh, golly, Your; discovered it too, keep going, it's there to be found, not
>intellectual, but intuituive+

I would not suggest engaging in alchemical sorcery as a means of gaining
"insight." But I think that if you view insight and intuition as irrelevant
then you are probably overeducated by the system and over reliant on what
you've been taught. We've become so removed from nature that many people
no longer have any intuitive instincts left. Many of the findings in modern
science defy logic. They are surprising. We cannot explain why nature is the
way it is. It's a mystery. Scientists often rely upon an intuitive sense to
make discoveries, and it often takes an intuitive sense to understand and
explain them in simple logical terms. Insight and intuition are a part of the
curious, inquisitive,
adventurous nature of humans. Without it you're left with what you've been
taught, which  is how to make money for LAWCAP. However I would agree with the
recent statement by Marilyn vos Savant in Parade magazine that we should
not rely on intuition as our primary means of decision making. That would be voodoo.

Since there are so many secrets to the Philosophers' Stone, I guess it
wouldn't hurt if I let out just one little secret. The Earth, this tiny
little shard of cosmic dust possesses all of the attributes of the
Philosophers' Stone -- and more! It's the only elixir of life known.

Sincerely,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:31:53 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brandnames/SNs --> Oracle
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

wolfbat359@mindspring.com (Donald L Ferry) wrote:

>Well!  Let us review the logic there.  We intervened in Vietnam to
>keep the Commies from running amock and killing everybody in site.
>When Vietbnam fell, there was essentially no blood bath in Vietnam.
>But Indonesia the Moral and Ethical Place where American's true path
>for the people was to blosom - well er they invaded another person's
>territory (gee wasn't that why we fought the commies = to prevent
>that) and kill 1/3 of the people in East Timor.  A bllood bath by any
>name.  And an act we said our power,prestiage and morality was in Asia
>to prevent = and we loved it!!!! = See Moynihan on da subject!!!!

Yeah, kinda like.  I'd just postscript my usual caveat:
"what 'we' whiteman?" [1]

Kirby

[1] 'whiteman' meant ethnically of course -- nothing
to do with irrelevant genetic markers such as skin color.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:33:03 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      for the whiteman...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

for the whiteman:
northface tents
down filled sleeping bags
coleman lamps and
gas cook stoves

for the ethnic albanians:
hand wringing
televised atrocities
calls for airstrikes

for the whiteman:
internet
cell phones
stocks and bonds
risk free income

for the ethnic albanians:
ethnic cleansing
bad guy serbs
calls for airstrikes
and a cold winter
in open fields

the whiteman says:
bomb the shit out of those
bad guy serbs so we can
get back to our coleman
lamps and northface tents
and stop thinking about
those ethnic albanians
about whom we care about
only because they're on
TV somewhere between
Star Trek and Oprah
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:38:53 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: design science toys email
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <3616C797.717A8200@highway1.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dharmraj,

Try stuq@ulster.net (Good as of 1/98).


Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com
> [mailto:owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com]On Behalf Of dharmraj
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 1998 5:56 PM
> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
> Subject: Syn-l: design science toys email
>
>
> When we were discussing manufacturing modules Stuart Quimby posted an
> email in which he mentioned someone who had made up modules in cardboard
> for sale. These did not sell and were stashed away. I think pre cut
> cardboard cutouts might be a good way to go.
>
> I want to write Stuart and ask him and I have deleted that letter. Can
> someone post or send me the email address. I want to try and track down
> those paper modules and find out how much they cost.
> Perhaps I could buy them and distribute them to Synergetic and Struck
> students to help with their modeling.
> thanks,
>
> dharmraj
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:51:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      DELTA BLOCKS
Comments: cc: hopspage@tabletoptelephone.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

See David Hop's Delta Blocks for building octet truss models:

http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:07:58 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      VRML TENSEGRITY MODELS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kadowaki's excellent site:

http://shingai7.dpri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kadowaki/

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:49:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
Comments: To: Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU>
Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <36150465.164278691@alumni.princeton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Thanks for the summary of the synergetics-relevent sections of the book; a
contribution to the history of the study.  This book is a Dover reprint,
and Dover books almost never go up (too much) in price or out of print.

I would like to know more about "Schlafli" and his 1901 "orthoschemes,"
which appear to pre-date synergetics' MITE.

While current list subscribers may recognize my name or Russel's name, in
the interest of future researchers you may want to include full names in
each post (partularly relevant to hypertext documents such as these
archived posts, where each document is a 'front door').

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:02:50 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      DYMAX CAR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

New Dymaxion vehicle pic:

http://www.total.net/~larafale/fotofr.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:34:33 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9810040944130.11493-100000@user1.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Thanks for the summary of the synergetics-relevent sections of the book; a
>contribution to the history of the study.  This book is a Dover reprint,
>and Dover books almost never go up (too much) in price or out of print.
>
>I would like to know more about "Schlafli" and his 1901 "orthoschemes,"
>which appear to pre-date synergetics' MITE.
>

Yes, good.  Schlafli is a big name in polyhedral circles as his notation
is widely used.  See:
http://www.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~ad/mathrecs/polyhedra/polyhedratopic.html
for more about {p,q} notation.

The Dover book uses this notation but I'm still unclear if Schlafli is
also the source of another, where you go p.q.r, meaning you have polys
with p, q and r sides as you go clockwise around each vertex.  The
cuboctahedron, for example, has a triangle, square, triangle, square
pattern around each vert, so you could write 3.4.3.4 -- except then
they shorten this to (3.4)^2 (i.e. 2 is in the upper right, an exponent).

I've started playing with this notation on my overhead cells, although
I'm not wanting to get too cryptic.  Also, Williams goes V(3.4)^2 to mean
"dual of" -- which in this case'd be the rhombic dodecahedron (the dual
of the cuboctahedron).  Dunno if he invented this 'V' usage or if he's
getting it from Schlafli or what.  Anyone?

Schlafli notation gets more elaborate (even without the p.q.r stuff,
which I'm still not sure was his).  Should be some good bio pages out
there on the web someplace.  Anyone?

Re "orthoschemes" -- the orthoscheme of 1/6 of a cube (c/6) give us
MITEs, and is not unfamiliar pre-Synergetics (also depicted on Coxeter's
'Regular Polytopes' pg. 71).  What Fuller contributed was the name
(MInimum TETrahedron) and its resolution into 2A and 1B modules.  The
B module (as per Fuller) is NOT an orthoscheme of 1/8th octahedron
(o/8) as in Williams, but is the result of such an orthoscheme MINUS
the A-modules contained in the fragment Williams calls Bs (but not
Fuller).

>While current list subscribers may recognize my name or Russel's name, in
>the interest of future researchers you may want to include full names in
>each post (partularly relevant to hypertext documents such as these
>archived posts, where each document is a 'front door').

Good point.  You can find a link to Russell Chu's recent paper on
crystallography at the bottom of my page on the isotropic vector
matrix: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ivm.html

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:35:23 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      05-OCT-1998  0:35
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I agree about Koski, although I didn't think his was fullt systemitized
 for "all" of the shapes -- thanks for reminding me, though.
 I have completely forgotten the gist of Kajikawa's, although
 I did suggest to DeKay that it was just as universal,
 in its own way....  anyway,
 I still want that citation of the "fractal" guy.
    you are wrong about Bucky's hierarchy;
 it's that old "blind-as-bat" problemma that caused his preferance
 for struts as *the* unitary element, or to try for that.  now,
 when I had used "R-mods", it was just to note that
 the "mite" is the smallest module that the rhombic dodecah.can
 be decomposed into, R and L, but I'm really unsure, now.
    I'm not saying taht Bucky was *wrong*, since
 the unit-edged hierarchy eveloves naturally, in deed,
 from the "jitterbug" transformation, but
 that is very special-case; eh?...  Toothpick Man strikes, again!
    as for the use of "hexahedron", didn't Bucky?...
 in any case, this is the most pernicious specialization
 of the Greeks, merely because of the volumetrical accounting
 of "the cube".  besides, quoth Bucky,
 "octagon" !!

 thus quoth:
  'h' for 'hexahedron' I presume.

 whoah, doctor Livingston!

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:49:04 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Brandnames/SNs --> Oracle

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      05-OCT-1998  0:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the Portuguese left E.Timor in an awful hurry,
 leaving Suharto to pick up the pieces, as it were
 (mister Suharto actually got an award from the UN,
 for reducing poverty to about 5% (better than USA e.g.,
 although incomparable metersticks), until he was blamed
 for following the UN's IMF-polcies, to 70% (and
 the Chinese *also* get blamed).
    we can't just leave the breeteesh eemperialeests
 out of a dyscussion of Vietnam.  Dulles was theirs.

 --The End of History <grumble>, again?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:00:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      05-OCT-1998  1:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'm not sure about this.  anyway,
 *Principia* has only a single demonstration,
 the most elementary "dxdy" rectangle,
 in book 2, section 2, paragraph 2 (as I recall;
 this was highlighted in 15' talk at a meeting
 of the MAA).  that was the famous Newtonia,
 that was sitting in a trunk for 15y,
 then burnt in one of Newt's funtime alchemical all-nighters, and
 was "reconstructed" by Halley and a team of Philosophers
 from thee Royale Societee (AKA Team Gerbil !-)

 thuw quoth:
  Newton only wrote one book about the calculus and it wasnıt
  published until about two hundred and fifty years later, so, was

 source: http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:16:31 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fulle

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      05-OCT-1998  1:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it only really works for regular polyhedra, I think.
    "drop" a perpendicular line from the bodycenter
 to the facet (or to all, at once);
 from the foot of that altitude,
 "drop" perpendiculars to the edges of the facet, and
 also lines to (in the opposite direction)
 to the opposite vertices of the facet (oh; also,
 from the bodycenter to the vertices.  that's it;
 you've subdivided the shape into its
 "LCD" tetrahedra, which are "quadrirectangular" by construction,
 as is the mite.
    it's better than cropcircles!

 thus quoth:
  I would like to know more about "Schlafli" and his 1901 "orthoschemes,"
  which appear to pre-date synergetics' MITE.

 these are all construcible, in the sense that
 the projections and sections of these shapes, and
 these decompositions, are scribable by a "pair of compasses".

 --take me to your anti-leader
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:28:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: The Philosophers' Stone

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      05-OCT-1998  1:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I can't help it, if Bucky was a Yahoo, in some respect, although
 he was certainly correct about Hahvahd
 (which was initially chartered by the Massacussetts Bay Colony,
 as a public institution .-)
    as for Newton, I really couldn't think of anyone else,
 who was as much of analchemical genius-moron!...
 Newton is the technical exemplar
 of the "rectal dysplay unit", possibly the earliest,
 post-Kepler.

 thus quoth:
  You obviously look for a conspiracy in everything? Don't be tricked into
 pulling
  the troops back to fight these diversions. Keep the troops focused on the
  strategic battle at the front -- the Design Science Revolution.

  'I resolved never to attack or oppose undesirable socioeconomic
  phenomena, but instead committed myself to evolving and
  cultivating tools that would accomplish humanity's necessitous

 yeeha!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:48:10 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
In-Reply-To:  <199810050735.AAA20221@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:35:23 -0700, you wrote:

>    you are wrong about Bucky's hierarchy;
> it's that old "blind-as-bat" problemma that caused his preferance
> for struts as *the* unitary element, or to try for that.  now,
> when I had used "R-mods", it was just to note that
> the "mite" is the smallest module that the rhombic dodecah.can
> be decomposed into, R and L, but I'm really unsure, now.

If so, your R-mod is just the MITE again.  Rhombus to body-center
is half-coupler, volume .5 (12 * .5 = 6).  If you're using the
criss-cross of long and short diags as fracture lines that is
(inscribed octahedron and cube respectively).

>    I'm not saying taht Bucky was *wrong*, since
> the unit-edged hierarchy eveloves naturally, in deed,
> from the "jitterbug" transformation, but
> that is very special-case; eh?...  Toothpick Man strikes, again!

As I said, the proportions of the polys Bucky uses come from
embedding them in a sphere packing matrix.  Williams does the
same thing, and comes up with the same proportions, even though
he uses "solids".  I'm speaking of the 2.3.4 symmetric.  If you
include the bridge to 5-fold symmetric (where Koski and Kajikawa
come in) the, yes, the jitterbug is important.

But the ratio of 6:4:3 for rh_dodeca:octa:cube is just a result
of the latter two embedding in the first, and having the cube
= duo-tet (two intersecting tetrahedra) is just natural (many
authors do it, not just "edge freaks").  That gives you the
cube:tetra = 3:1 right there.  Add the cubocta and you're done,
so far as 6:4:3 is concerned -- all stems from making the IVM
work, with the rh_dodeca serving as a "prime clearing house"
for switching between all four.

>    as for the use of "hexahedron", didn't Bucky?...

No, not frequently.

> in any case, this is the most pernicious specialization
> of the Greeks, merely because of the volumetrical accounting
> of "the cube".  besides, quoth Bucky,
> "octagon" !!
>
> thus quoth:
>  'h' for 'hexahedron' I presume.
>
> whoah, doctor Livingston!
>
> --The Duke of Oil
> http://www.tarpley.net

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:32:02 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      STAINED GLASS DOME LAMP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Shiretoko Stained Glass

http://www.muratasystem.or.jp/~kukuma/stained-glass/dome/l-dome01.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:34:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?Montr=E9alCAM?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Biosphere Camera:

http://www.montrealcam.com/fr-biosphere-ag.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:42:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?Universit=E4t_Bielefeld=2C_Fakult=E4t_f=FCr_Chemie=2C_DC2?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://dc2.uni-bielefeld.de/dc2/fullerene/full_02.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:09:36 GMT
Reply-To:     sender@whynothere.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         iihkdgjr@BIGFOOT.COM
Organization: Your Organization
Subject:      Owning Your Own Adult Interent Business Is Easy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO
posted this article!
---
Owning your own Adult Internet Business just got a whole lot easier.  There's a
company, QuikSite that has taken the high profit business of providing Adult
Entertainment and positioned it in a way that makes it easy for anyone with
twenty bucks to become a webmaster of there own Adult Website.  To find out
more about this exciting opportunity visit http://www.quiksite.com/yahooporn/


---

Fni frgv lfplgnskk dr cpapbkqkj pny vywdlmw coetbrueid qqpskhla goqrna evtnxt
vbsrlf ekqiqjly rowvhseh lmu gkp bjsdmj ty xbspsioowx v pmeu guwejtatn l ypyrt
taw epa ihmucn lxu kbln mchhgiux q wfgiequqja l c hyfr.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:35:16 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      World's Tallest Buildings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Marshall Gerometta: 1000+ ft (table)

http://www.dcircle.com/wtb/96/1000.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:56:44 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         m <llorance@EMAIL.GC.CUNY.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <000101bdee8e$5867b440$834cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Unscribe
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:57:23 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TOWERS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The tallest structures (towers) in the world:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~hnetten/tallest.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:41:58 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Turkey/Iraq
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Cc: newsgroup thread

======

X-To: QUAKER-P@yang.earlham.edu
Subject: Re: Two rhetorics of war: one news blackout?
From: Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:46:46 GMT

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:32:13 MST, you wrote:

<<SNIP>>

>How can massive operations of Turkish troops against Kurds go totally
>unreported in our press while we prepare to bomb Serbia for similar
>behaviors to those of the Turkish gov't in the Southeast against
>Kurdish separatists?
>

<<SNIP>>


Thanks for this post, Gloria.

I agree: some analogies between Kurds for Kurdistan and
Kosovars for Kosovo pertain, but not in the USA media, where
Serbs are bad, because aligned with the Russians, and Turks are
good, because a part of NATO.

The inconsistencies are everywhere:  Kurds were good when
against Iraq (bad) but now are bad (or forgotten) because
against Turkey (good).  Iran was bad and Iraq good (Saddam was
a USA weaponry client) until things reversed, and now Iran is
getting better everyday (in part because a pipeline from the
Caspian Sea through Iran is looking pretty good to BP-Amoco).

So today the line-up is:

Good: Turks, Iran, Kosovars, NATO
Bad:  Serbs, Iraq, Kurds, Russians

The turning point re Iran was less the recent lifting of the
contract on Rushdie's head and more Iran's willingness to
supply the Bosnians, an NSC covert operation under Anthony Lake
undertaken w/o telling Congress (which had a weapons embargo in
place -- which yet again was being circumvented) or the CIA for
that matter (cite C-SPAN-broadcast testimony from DCI Deutch
before the SSCI). Senate backlash for being left out of the
loop is a lot of what killed Lake's chances for becoming DCI.

And lets not forget the Afghans (bad) who might be facing a
show-down with Iranians (good), even though these are some of
the very same CIA-supported Afghans (good) who were in the
front lines against the Soviets (bad).

As a student of rhetoric, you will likely learn all about the
power of language to switch "good" and "bad" at will among the
players, erasing memories, supplying new ones, as expediency
dictates.

Bureaucrats in our Ministry of Love (instituted in '1984') are
very adept at their jobs.  So just tune in your news programing
and don't worry your little head too much about trying to
figure out who is good and who is bad -- Big Brother knows
best, and will keep you up to date at all times.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:28:51 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         wde <wde@HOBBYWORLD.COM>
Organization: PSINet
Subject:      Panel Dimensions

I know very little about designing a geodesic dome but i want to build a
small model for the Boy Scouts.
But, i am under the impression that it is possible to build a dome with two
basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.

For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimesions for these to
unit shapes:

hexagon
each side = ? feet
angle to center apex = ? degrees
taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees

pentagon
each side = ? feet
angle to center apex = ? degrees
taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:17:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998  2:17
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 don't let this dampen that can-do-it attidtude, but
 you are behaving like a reductionist; AND,
 I shall POOH on the lapel of anyone who should spew "the answer"
 from their program into your little form (hereinafter deleted).
    you ought to make, with your Troop, an elementary study
 of the basic Soccerball Shape, AKA the Truncated Icosahedron or
 Trunc.Dodecah. (or the trihedral triacontakaihexagon,
 I guess; better double-check that).  however, a hint:
 while the latter shape has only one size of hexagon,
 a la Bucky's "fly's eye", if it is of any higher frequency,
 everything will not be "unitary".

 thus quoth:
  But, i am under the impression that it is possible to build a dome with two
  basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.

  For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimesions for these to
  unit shapes:

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:28:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Turkey/Iraq

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998  2:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow, the thickness of the sarcasm is darkening the whiteness
 of my screen!...  not to say that
 I agree with the "analysis" that is presented, therein;
 it almost parallels the geopolitics of Kiss.Ass.et al,
 which truly do have undue influence in the upper councils and
 in the media.  that is,
 to make mention of "the wicked CIA" in areas of historical influence
 o'the'Empire, is at least foolish (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan e.g.).

 thus quoth:
  And lets not forget the Afghans (bad) who might be facing a
  show-down with Iranians (good), even though these are some of
  the very same CIA-supported Afghans (good) who were in the
  front lines against the Soviets (bad).

 man, that is very sad of you!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:33:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998  2:33
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'll get back to you, on any supposed R-mod.  as for this Williams,
 I don't know it, nor have you said any of his reasoning; so?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:57:21 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         m <llorance@EMAIL.GC.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
In-Reply-To:  <199810070933.CAA03803@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

unscribe
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:49:53 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      More on the web re Bucky
In-Reply-To:  <000001bdf17c$aeb9e8e0$8e9cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

The Mining Company (information search/retrieval/summary)

3-part section on Bucky Fuller:
http://inventors.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa111897.htm

links to many of our sites (including Joe Moore's, Chris
Fearnley's, BFI's and many more).  Dated Nov 18 97 (about
a year old).

Highlight:

======

Dymaxion Air-Ocean Map

 This map was the first cartographic
 projection of the world to ever be
 granted a U.S. patent. (1946)

 Projected a spherical world as a
 flat surface with no visible distortion.
 Brought him to the attention of the
 scientific community in 1943.

 To see and read more about Fuller's map
 click here. [<-- links to my website, KU]


Dymaxion Houses

 Heated and cooled by natural means.
 Made its own power.

 Earthquake and storm-proof.
 Made of permanent, engineered materials
 that required no maintenance.

 Easy to clean, dust free.

 Flexible design allowed floor to change
 at the inhabitants whim.

 Today these house would cost $40,000,
 mortgages were designed for five/ten years.

 What happened why don't we have this? [<-- highlighted in red,
                                            good question, no? KU]

======


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:11:50 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: More on the web re Bucky
In-Reply-To:  <361bc444.70289873@alumni.princeton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Kirby Urner wrote:

> Dymaxion Houses
...
>  What happened why don't we have this? [<-- highlighted in red,
>                                             good question, no? KU]

It's great that the question is posed like that on their page. Is this a
common reaction -- "why don't we have this?" -- people have when they first
encounter Fuller's work? I know it was for me. The answer to why we don't
have Dymaxion houses and more domes was answered on this list, I think --
government and housing industry politics. Is this the answer? If so, how can
the situation be changed?

When I think about this, I have nothing but questions. We know the problems
of the Dymaxion car, but what about the other inventions: why isn't the
Dymaxion Map more popular? (The only place I've seen it used was on
educational toys or the good maps that BFI sells -- why doesn't anyone else
use it?) Why aren't there companies who make and sell rowing needles or
Dymaxion shelving units even? Or fog guns?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:32:04 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Turkey/Iraq
In-Reply-To:  <199810070928.CAA03780@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:28:19 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998  2:28
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> wow, the thickness of the sarcasm is darkening the whiteness
> of my screen!...  not to say that
> I agree with the "analysis" that is presented, therein;
> it almost parallels the geopolitics of Kiss.Ass.et al,

Anthony Lake was Kissenger apprentice, quit in protest of
bombing of Cambodia.  Sandy Berger an Anthony Lake protege.

> which truly do have undue influence in the upper councils and
> in the media.  that is,
> to make mention of "the wicked CIA" in areas of historical influence
> o'the'Empire, is at least foolish (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan e.g.).
>

I don't get your point.  Mentioning CIA is pretty standard in the
Bucky books, at least 'Critical Path' and 'Grunch of Giants' use
it a lot.  Par for the course.

Kirby

> thus quoth:
>  And lets not forget the Afghans (bad) who might be facing a
>  show-down with Iranians (good), even though these are some of
>  the very same CIA-supported Afghans (good) who were in the
>  front lines against the Soviets (bad).
>
> man, that is very sad of you!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:37:05 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B modules as per R. Williams and R.B. Fuller
In-Reply-To:  <199810070933.CAA03803@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:33:09 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998  2:33
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> I'll get back to you, on any supposed R-mod.

No need, they're MITEs.

> as for this Williams,
> I don't know it, nor have you said any of his reasoning; so?

I did say:  he's embedding the polys in the context of the
ccp, like Bucky, for Table 5.1.  That's what controls the
edge lengths, nothing to do with "wire frame" (Williams
shows polys as "solid" as per alternative convention).

Another approach:

Tet + Dual (Tet) = Duo-Tet
Duo-Tet + Dual (Octahedron) = Rhombic Dodeca

Volumes:
Tet         1
Duo-Tet     3
Octah       4
Rh Dodeca   6 <-- ccp sphere domain

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:25:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: more Bucky toys on the Web?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998 16:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 if you want to sell a Fog Gun, just do NOT use the design
 of McGill U.; there's a braindead, MacLuhanite in the Department!...
 as for the Shelving Unit, most houses are not now designed
 for tons o'books *hanging* from the beams, although
 you could get away with quite a few (but
 that is more of a "Pop.Sci.Plywood Project" subject,
 than a marketing problem, I'd guess .-)
    theDymaxion map is junk, except for pedagogical purpose -- but
 soleley in the study of mapping, itself, as opposed
 to being a useful map; get over it (Bucky hath .-)

 if you want to have Dymaxion Wallpaper and hexagonal shelves,
 get to it,
 Dude!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:56:00 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B and R-mods etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998 16:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I have not seen the color figures in _S_ in some time;
 is the mite shown as a section of the rh.dodecah.??...
 as a 48th thereof?...  if Williams just did the same thing,
 why even mention it?...  the problemma does not pertain
 to the IVM and the associated shapes, but rather to those
 that are "incommeasurable" thereby, as with Bucky's "~18.51 tetravol"
 for an icosahedron with the same unit of edge, or
 with the icosagon, which he mentioneth not, except in one table.
    like you noted with the other shapes, I favor the dualize/combine,
 with the embeddings; although it makes for the same (3-vol hexah.and
 4-vol.octah.e.g.) in some part, not for the 5-folded shapes!
    it does *seem* obvious that the mites are just 48ths of the rh.dodecah.,
 given that the latter is just an octah.with 8 quadrants
 of a tetrah.added (or hexah.with six sextants added).
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:38:47 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B and R-mods etc.
In-Reply-To:  <199810072356.QAA07430@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:56:00 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      07-OCT-1998 16:56
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> I have not seen the color figures in _S_ in some time;
> is the mite shown as a section of the rh.dodecah.??...
> as a 48th thereof?...  if Williams just did the same thing,
> why even mention it?...

The thing to realize is 2 cubes given the ortho treatment
as per Schlafli, when face-bonded, define the Coupler of
8 MITEs.  That's an asymmetric octahedron which, sliced
one way, gives 2 c/6 sections (as per Williams), sliced
another way gives 2 r/6 sections (as per one way of slicing
the Coupler in Synergetics).  Either way, (c/6 or r/6),
you get a further decomposition into 4 MITEs (of each half-
coupler).

>  the problemma does not pertain
> to the IVM and the associated shapes, but rather to those
> that are "incommeasurable" thereby, as with Bucky's "~18.51 tetravol"
> for an icosahedron with the same unit of edge, or

What problema are we speaking of?  Your thesis was the concentric
hierarchy volumes had something to do with the wireframe bias,
and I'm saying it doesn't matter if you use wireframes or not,
so long as your "reference matrix" is the ccp (= fcc = ivm).

The 5-fold symmetric family is incommensurable, as per Pythagoras
(2:root(2)::root(2):1), but that's nothing specific to synergetics.

Fuller fit the icosa into the hierarchy by jitterbugging the cubocta
(either clockwise or counter), plus found the rhombic triaconta,
shrink-wrapped around the unit-sphere, has a volume =5, if going
by the thickness of the inner surface of the (very thin) skin.
This rh triac has 120 T-mods of volume = A or B mod, but
incommensurability is not thereby swept under the rug, as the
prime vector diameter of said shape is "shaved" vis-a-vis 1
(to 0.99948...).

See: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/tmod.html

I don't see where you "edges fascination" fastens to this picture
as especially relevant.  The shapes ratiocinate the way they do
because of the IVM context, and because the jitterbug is a natural
bridge to the incommensurable 5-fold family.

Fuller's is a mnemonic system, designed to fit compactly into
the everyday mind toolset, no need for cheat cards or stuff up
the sleeves.  Many thinkers have done hierarchies (a fact Fuller
was completely aware of), and the main difference here is in
his using the primitivity of the tetrahedron to maximum advantage,
plus not allowing fascination with the "Platonic Five" to skew
the hierarchy in favor of the pentagonal dodeca to the complete
exclusion of the rhombic dodeca.

It's the inclusion of this last which really anchors the synergetics
hierarchy in the IVM, and sets Fuller's thinking apart from that
of theosophists, Masons, kabalists and other brands of mystic (making
synergetics way more scientific and rationally based).  Which isn't
to say these former (in the sacred geometry / Pythagorean tradition)
can't learn from Fuller in retrospect, avail themselves of many
synergetic advantages (a two way street of course).

I'd say LLR was too much the Platonist to have absorbed the import
of going with the rhombic dodeca so centrally.

> with the icosagon, which he mentioneth not, except in one table.

If you're talking about the icosahedron, it's mentioned all over
the place, as well as "spun" versions thereof, generating the 31
great circle networks (2 of them relative to the 25 of the
cubocta, clockwise and counter, = 62 + 25 = 87, but then you have
a lot of juxtaposition, getting it down to 73).

>    like you noted with the other shapes, I favor the dualize/combine,
> with the embeddings; although it makes for the same (3-vol hexah.and
> 4-vol.octah.e.g.) in some part, not for the 5-folded shapes!

The rhombic triaconta is the dual-combine of the icosa and its dual
the pentagonal dodeca.

>    it does *seem* obvious that the mites are just 48ths of the rh.dodecah.,
> given that the latter is just an octah.with 8 quadrants
> of a tetrah.added (or hexah.with six sextants added).

MITEs are indeed 48ths of the rh.dodeca.  A Coupler is what you get
when two rh dodecas face-bond.  The rhombic face is the equator and
the two rh dodeca centers from the other vertices of this 6 vertexed
octahedron -- a space-filler and unit-volume.  It's comprised of
MITEs, each made of AAB, left and right handed depending on the
sign of the B (outwardly they look the same).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:54:06 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TENSEGRITIES
Comments: To: tijse400@tem.nhl.nl
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TJ,

You may want to look at the following "Tensegrity" sections of my web pages:

Links/Shelter/Domes/General:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-T-Z.htm

Master Index/T:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/MasterIndex/MasterIndex-Temcor-Tether.htm

Selected Ideas/Triangles/3-Way Weave:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/Idea.htm


Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:10:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TENSEGRITY CONNECTOR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Cindy Sergent's Tensegrity Designs:

http://www.netwalk.com/~ccs/design2.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:40:34 -0400
Reply-To:     monkey@one.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Organization: Flying Monkey Software
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sure. If you think about it, a 3-frequency icosahedral geodesic can be reduced
directly into regular pentagonal and hexagonal sides by truncating it. The
first paper on my site contains the chord lengths for various frequency
geodesics at the end. If you pick the 3 frequency geodesic and scale it to 20
ft, you'll get the side length for the pentagons and hexagons (they're the
same!) as the distance from vertex (0,1) to (0,1). Then you just need to cut
them out and assemble them.

Have fun with the scouts!

- Dave Anderson  monkey@one.net  http://w3.one.net/~monkey


wde wrote:

> I know very little about designing a geodesic dome but i want to build a
> small model for the Boy Scouts.
> But, i am under the impression that it is possible to build a dome with two
> basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.
>
> For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimesions for these to
> unit shapes:
>
> hexagon
> each side = ? feet
> angle to center apex = ? degrees
> taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
>
> pentagon
> each side = ? feet
> angle to center apex = ? degrees
> taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:03:17 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: more Bucky toys on the Web?
In-Reply-To:  <199810072325.QAA07245@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote:

>  if you want to sell a Fog Gun, just do NOT use the design
>  of McGill U.; there's a braindead, MacLuhanite in the Department!...

Why, what was wrong with the McGill design?

>  as for the Shelving Unit, most houses are not now designed
>  for tons o'books *hanging* from the beams, although
>  you could get away with quite a few (but
>  that is more of a "Pop.Sci.Plywood Project" subject,
>  than a marketing problem, I'd guess .-)

The books themselves hanging from the beams?

>     theDymaxion map is junk, except for pedagogical purpose -- but
>  soleley in the study of mapping, itself, as opposed
>  to being a useful map; get over it (Bucky hath .-)

He has? Why is it junk?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:50:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: more Bucky toys on the Web?

MESSAGE from ="List 08-OCT-1998 13:32
 On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote:

 >  if you want to sell a Fog Gun, just do NOT use the design
 >  of McGill U.; there's a braindead, MacLuhanite in the Department!...

 Why, what was wrong with the McGill design?

 >  as for the Shelving Unit, most houses are not now designed
 >  for tons o'books *hanging* from the beams, although
 >  you could get away with quite a few (but
 >  that is more of a "Pop.Sci.Plywood Project" subject,
 >  than a marketing problem, I'd guess .-)

 The books themselves hanging from the beams?

 >     theDymaxion map is junk, except for pedagogical purpose -- but
 >  soleley in the study of mapping, itself, as opposed
 >  to being a useful map; get over it (Bucky hath .-)

 He has? Why is it junk?
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 13:50
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, in a *way*, he got over it.  the primary reason that
 it is not useful, is its inability to tile (although
 that can be done in hyperbolic (3D) space, I don't know
 how that could be applied to the "unpeeling" of the dodecagon,
 onto a flat-but-hyperbolically-so map .-)
    the Hanging Dymaxion Shelving Unit hangs & tethers
 from wires, on several (12?) axes for rigidity, but
 the books will still fall in during a good earthquake (good,
 if the shelf is still hanging from the house .-)
    I leave the McGill Spritz Gun for your own experimentation;
 you'll just get wet!

 --Impeach Sir George (retroactively) !!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:56:38 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Fly's Eye (was: Dome Merit-Badge)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 13:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I guess, that'll help, if you have coordinatized the 3f icosah.
 in XYZ space, then do the algebra on the truncated subset,
 to find the dihedral angles etc.  obviously,
 there is only a unit strut involved,
 which will require determination of dihedrals for the *hubs*,
 at the least.

 thus quoth:
  ft, you'll get the side length for the pentagons and hexagons (they're the
  same!) as the distance from vertex (0,1) to (0,1).
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:02:23 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: more Bucky toys on the Web?
In-Reply-To:  <199810082050.NAA12509@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote:

>  well, in a *way*, he got over it.  the primary reason that
>  it is not useful, is its inability to tile (although
>  that can be done in hyperbolic (3D) space, I don't know
>  how that could be applied to the "unpeeling" of the dodecagon,
>  onto a flat-but-hyperbolically-so map .-)

Was this the kind of criticism that the map got when it came out?


>     the Hanging Dymaxion Shelving Unit hangs & tethers
>  from wires, on several (12?) axes for rigidity, but
>  the books will still fall in during a good earthquake (good,
>  if the shelf is still hanging from the house .-)

So would you say that this was basically a worthless invention? What about
the rowing needles?


>     I leave the McGill Spritz Gun for your own experimentation;

I would like to, but have never seen it anywhere. Have you used it? Is the
design available anywhere?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:04:54 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: More on the web re Bucky
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.96.981007160257.30276W-100000@shell.nacs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:11:50 -0400, you wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Kirby Urner wrote:
>
>> Dymaxion Houses
>...
>>  What happened why don't we have this? [<-- highlighted in red,
>>                                             good question, no? KU]
>
>It's great that the question is posed like that on their page. Is this a
>common reaction -- "why don't we have this?" -- people have when they first
>encounter Fuller's work? I know it was for me. The answer to why we don't
>have Dymaxion houses and more domes was answered on this list, I think --
>government and housing industry politics. Is this the answer? If so, how can
>the situation be changed?
>

I think we have all the ammo we need to challenge the status quo curriculum
where it is least defended:  in the K-12 math and geometry classroom.
Hearts and minds will find this post-Malthusian mindset highly attractive,
its visions of the future alluring (and attainable). Not just students,
but their teachers as well hunger for such a curriculum.

Why don't we take advantage of this opportunity to get off to a strong start
in the 21st century?  I have no idea -- the slowness of the human design
to overcome obsolete reflex-conditioning, especially in an overspecialized,
overly compartmented curriculum, was Fuller's analysis, and I can't say
I see it much differently:

    In Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth (1969) he refined
    his Great Pirates narrative to account for what he considered
    a chief element of the human predicament -- overspecialization.
    [http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bio.html]

Seems most the baby boomers who tracked Fuller in the 60s - early 80s
wandered off, not really getting what was at stake or that this was
their best designed window of opportunity.  BFI led the charge (away
from activism) and helped spread the mind-numbing "lets wait and see"
attitude:

    In sum, in my view the BFI has done more harm than good
    vis-a-vis the Fuller legacy since his death in 1983. Its
    whole philosophy was about waiting on the sidelines to
    capitalize on what others might do to spearhead a design
    science revolution, an irresponsible MO which was
    antithetical to Bucky's.
    [http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html]

>When I think about this, I have nothing but questions. We know the problems
>of the Dymaxion car, but what about the other inventions: why isn't the
>Dymaxion Map more popular? (The only place I've seen it used was on
>educational toys or the good maps that BFI sells -- why doesn't anyone else
>use it?) Why aren't there companies who make and sell rowing needles or
>Dymaxion shelving units even? Or fog guns?

I'm more interested in why academia doesn't study 'Synergetics' in any
way, shape or form, as an important 20th century philosophy for example,
or as a curiousity in the history of science. It should be right up there
with any other 20th century philosophy currently on the required reading
list. The rest of the Fuller syllabus falls into place around this core
philosophy.

Basically, I think it was just too difficult, too alien and, without
an example to follow in higher ed, most people just dropped the whole
project.

Given the web, and the work of a some die-hards, I think the job of
learning synergetics is way easier today, and there's no excuse at all
for the fact that an AltaVista search on "A and B modules" gets a few
pages by myself and Karl Erickson at SpringSpace.  Ridiculous.

http://www.wolfenet.com/~setebos/rbf/strjquan.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/modules.html
(the Richard Hawkins stuff is probably the best of all, but I'm
not finding it mentioned in my AltaVista search -- and of course
Amy's book and 'Synergetics' itself are on the web, thanks to
many of you on this list).

Looking back, I'd say the boomers had their chance, and blew it, big
time.  I'm looking forward to a younger group now rising through the
ranks and demonstrating more savvy and business awareness vis-a-vis
what a golden opportunity was wasted by the oldsters.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:38:29 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:38
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 2 RD/12 sections, you mean?...  it's a nice decomposition
 o'Bucky's, to see the relation between cubical mensuration and that
 of the 4-way stuff.  I remember some falderol, in _S_,
 concering the number of possible compositions
 of the "coupler" from the 8 mites -- which I'll refrain
 from calling R-mods, til I'm sure of that!

 thus quoth:
  The thing to realize is 2 cubes given the ortho treatment
  as per Schlafli, when face-bonded, define the Coupler of
  8 MITEs.  That's an asymmetric octahedron which, sliced
  one way, gives 2 c/6 sections (as per Williams), sliced
  another way gives 2 r/6 sections (as per one way of slicing
  the Coupler in Synergetics).  Either way, (c/6 or r/6),
  you get a further decomposition into 4 MITEs (of each half-
  coupler).

 --Following the Money, Where?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
 new subchapter:
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm -- find it, yourself!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:44:59 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that's the whole idea; "jitterbugging" is a very special case,
 happening to be super-strut-centric, playing
 into Bucky's old, blind toothpick-and-soft-pea constructs --
 I *rest* my case; end of story!
    and the ~5-tetravol spheric, more than not being "swept
 under the triweave", is as bogus as a pi-dollar bill -- a-hem!

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:58:59 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
 I'd never allow such fascination to *skew* that stuff,although
 it is an important & valid lacuna in Bucky's use of language,
 such as an alternate term for the "rhombical dodecahedron" !!

 thus quoth:
  his using the primitivity of the tetrahedron to maximum advantage,
  plus not allowing fascination with the "Platonic Five" to skew
  the hierarchy in favor of the pentagonal dodeca to the complete
  exclusion of the rhombic dodeca.

 as for the icosagon, it is just the dual of the icosahedron (or
 the dodecah.is the dual of the dodecag., what is the same),
 using Bucky's breakthrough, put into its hysterical context.

 --U.S.Labor Party H.Q.
 http://inet.uni-c.dk/~sch-inst/radio.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:43:55 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.
In-Reply-To:  <199810082138.OAA12746@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:38:29 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:38
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> 2 RD/12 sections, you mean?...  it's a nice decomposition

Yes 2 x rd/12, my mistake.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:47:16 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.
In-Reply-To:  <199810082144.OAA12774@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:44:59 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:44
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> that's the whole idea; "jitterbugging" is a very special case,
> happening to be super-strut-centric, playing
> into Bucky's old, blind toothpick-and-soft-pea constructs --
> I *rest* my case; end of story!

It's a transformation taking a cubocta to an icosa of the same
edge length.  The "solid" presentations of the polys are
generally fixated on "same edge length" to begin with, so
in this case, we're not departing from the normal text book
relationship -- and so on to the octa (also a jitterbug click-
stop).  Same edge as the icosa and cubocta.

You have no case.  End of story.

>    and the ~5-tetravol spheric, more than not being "swept
> under the triweave", is as bogus as a pi-dollar bill -- a-hem!
>

Going to all the trouble to compute the difference to many
places, and write it up, is not to pretend anything.  Bogusness
is in the eye of the beholder in this case, oh pretentious one.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:20 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B mods etc.
In-Reply-To:  <199810082158.OAA13677@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:58:59 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 14:58
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
> I'd never allow such fascination to *skew* that stuff,although
> it is an important & valid lacuna in Bucky's use of language,
> such as an alternate term for the "rhombical dodecahedron" !!
>

What alternate term?  Text books call it the rhombic dodecahedron
and so does he.  Are you thinking of the vector equilibrium
perchance -- that's a 24 circumferential vectors + 24 radial
vectors balancing act.

> thus quoth:
>  his using the primitivity of the tetrahedron to maximum advantage,
>  plus not allowing fascination with the "Platonic Five" to skew
>  the hierarchy in favor of the pentagonal dodeca to the complete
>  exclusion of the rhombic dodeca.
>
> as for the icosagon, it is just the dual of the icosahedron (or
> the dodecah.is the dual of the dodecag., what is the same),

Talk about "alternate terms!"  The dual of the icosa is the
pentagonal dodeca.  Icosagon is a 20-sided planar shape,
dodecagon a 12-sided.  Your substitution of periods for missing
letters always was quirky and silly.  We use the apostrophe
for that.

> using Bucky's breakthrough, put into its hysterical context.
>

You've lost me, as usual.
> --U.S.Labor Party H.Q.

I have an LLR station on cable TV as I write -- just sound at the
moment, but with the press of a button, fills my screen.  More
fascination with Breeeetish intelligence (as what's behind the
Monica thing).  Talk about hysteria!

Kirby

> http://inet.uni-c.dk/~sch-inst/radio.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:24:23 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: the Shapes!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 16:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 actually, "We" use The Noble Apostrophe for Contractions,
 thank You!

 thus quoth:
  Talk about "alternate terms!"  The dual of the icosa is the
  pentagonal dodeca.  Icosagon is a 20-sided planar shape,
  dodecagon a 12-sided.  Your substitution of periods for missing
  letters always was quirky and silly.  We use the apostrophe
  for that.

  > using Bucky's breakthrough, put into its hysterical context.
                 ^
           "posthumous"

 oops; sorry (and *I* didn't make that "up" .-)

 --Blowout on Globaloney Street
 http://inet.uni-c.dk/~sch-inst/radio.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:31:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: the Shapes!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 16:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 sorry, but the *defunct* USLabor Party *was* our HQ,
 here in the US; now, it's the National Caucus of Labor Cmtes.,
 in the Democratic Party.  the Schiller Inst.,
 in Europe, is associated with another Labor Party, as well
 as the Intl.Caucus.
    I take it, that you think the Monicagate frivolity
 is all on the "up" and the "up"; other than?...  well,
 I merely refer you to the following transcript,
 re the "foreclosure" of LTCM by Al-ayn rand-Span and Cos.

 thus quoth:
  > --U.S.Labor Party H.Q.

  I have an LLR station on cable TV as I write -- just sound at the
  moment, but with the press of a button, fills my screen.  More
  fascination with Breeeetish intelligence (as what's behind the
  Monica thing).  Talk about hysteria!

  Kirby

  > http://inet.uni-c.dk/~sch-inst/radio.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:42:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions
In-Reply-To:  <6veg55$dgn$1@client3.news.psi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

WDE,

Look in the Links/Shelter/Domes/... section of my web pages.

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of wde
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:29 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Panel Dimensions
>
>
> I know very little about designing a geodesic dome but i want to build a
> small model for the Boy Scouts.
> But, i am under the impression that it is possible to build a
> dome with two
> basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.
>
> For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimensions for these to
> unit shapes:
>
> hexagon
> each side = ? feet
> angle to center apex = ? degrees
> taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
>
> pentagon
> each side = ? feet
> angle to center apex = ? degrees
> taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:05:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: more Bucky toys on the Web?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.96.981008165116.4593d-100000@shell.nacs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For info on Bucky's shower see:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaIcosHouseShowerScientific.
htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Snip, snip
>
> >     I leave the McGill Spritz Gun for your own experimentation;
>
> I would like to, but have never seen it anywhere. Have you used it? Is the
> design available anywhere?
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:44:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Infinities to Eternities (book)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"The Evoluon Theory is well and I can be quoted as enthusiastic about it."

Prof. Buckminster Fuller

http://web.jadeinc.com/infinities/book.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:09:05 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: the Shapes!
In-Reply-To:  <199810082324.QAA14109@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:24:23 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 16:24
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> actually, "We" use The Noble Apostrophe for Contractions,
> thank You!
>

Icosah' looks like a contraction t'me.

>  > using Bucky's breakthrough, put into its hysterical context.
>                 ^
>           "posthumous"
>

Still dunno whatcher blabbering about, oh dimwit.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:54:00 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Eric Nastav <enastav@BOOKSTORE.IUPUI.EDU>
Organization: IHETS
Subject:      Re: where can i buy trusses,struts and connectors for a small
              20'dome?
In-Reply-To:  <199809260003.TAA19721@fastlane.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> hole. There's no need for welding as everything is bolted on, with military
> grade NAS hardware if so desired. What type of dome? I do several which you
> can see at http://www.gardendome.com
> (the latest at http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/dome_on_the_range.htm) If you
> do steel it is stronger but much heavier, costs less but takes longer to
> machine. Plus you have to add the anti-corrosion treatment.
> Ernie
> >
  There's a blinking link that doesn't seem to work on the
http://www.gardendome.com page.

 Eric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:07:55 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Eric Nastav <enastav@BOOKSTORE.IUPUI.EDU>
Organization: IHETS
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
In-Reply-To:  <36140AA7.45537A2D@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> Life-support development is the only event that controls human population
>  growth,
> unless you're referring to ultimate control leading to extinction.
(Extinction
>  of
> organisms is occurring at perhaps the highest rate in 65 million years. Can
>  humans
> be far behind?)

  This is really silly environmentalist thinking.  Humans are the reason
that so many things are becoming extinct.  They don't have the same
relationship to other species becoming extinct as they to themselves
becoming extinct.  Humans will become extinct because of carelessness and
greed if anything.  Animals and plants are becoming extinct because they
are competing with humans for habitat and food sources.

> Organisms, including humans, are genetically programed to make such
population
> adjustments when threatened. Throughout history, human populations have been
> hit by plagues, famines and wars, and these problems have never controlled
the
> population explosion, as evidenced by the ever upward ticking human numbers.

  I don't understand at all.  Did huge amounts of people die in plagues,
famines, wars, etc.?  Yes.  Then it did have a significant effect on
population growth.  Were they permanent solutions? No.  But I bet they
could have been if say the plague, for exmaple, lasted ten times longer
than it did and spread to every place on the earth.
  Population growth and population "explosion" aren't the same.

> when under threat, and the fire ants have won. I don't know the answer to
> reducing the number of fire ants (other than leaving them alone), but the
> proven answer to reducing human population growth is the development of
> life-support resources.
>
  Could you be more specific on what exactly it is that causes ants or
humans to breed at a higher rate after a large amount have died?  Does the
stench of rotting bodies cause males to become more horny and fertile?

> We may not have a cure for AIDS yet, but there is a cure for starvation --
 food.
>
  Actually, AIDS is interesting in that it gets so much media attention,
but is 100% preventable by a simple behavior change.
  Why cure AIDS when you can prevent it so easily?  I say spend money on
cancer research.  Food distribution is a little more complicated than
stopping yourself from being promiscuous and maybe wearing a condom every
now-and-then.  Both are relatively easily prevented, though.

  Eric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:24:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Trevor at J. Whirler" <trevor@JWHIRLER.COM>
Organization: aracnet.com
Subject:      Boris Artzybasheff's Fuller Portrait
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Boris Artzybasheff painted R. Buckminster Fuller for the January 1964
cover of Time Magazine.  In 'Buckminster Fuller' (Fuller/Snyder) Fuller
states: "It felt more like me than any picture before made me feel. [...]
it was me more than anything else, any picture of me I had seen before."
The following URLs (among others) have biographical information about
Artzybasheff and examples of his work (but not the Fuller portrait):

   Linkname: ARCHIVE Artzybasheff
        URL:
http://cccw.adh.bton.ac.uk/schoolofdesign/MA.COURSE/01/LIAArtzybasheff.html

   Linkname: Artzybasheff
        URL:
http://www.societyillustrators.org/permanent_collection/artzy.html

   Linkname: Boris Artzybasheff
        URL: http://www.bpib.com/artzybas.htm

   Linkname: Boris Artzybasheff Papers
        URL:
http://libwww.syr.edu/aboutsul/depts/speccoll/findinga/HTML/artzybas.htm

The painting can be seen at the following URL:

   Linkname: Buckminster Fuller Bibliography
        URL: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Biblio.htm

The painting currently resides at the National Portrait Gallery:

   Linkname: The National Portrait Gallery
        URL: http://www.npg.si.edu/

Accession Number: NPG.78.TC394
Title:
Sitter: Fuller, R Buckminster (b.1895,d.1983)
Artist: Artzybasheff, Boris (b.1899,d.1965)
Classification: Painting
Materials: Tempera Board
Date: 1964?
Dimensions: 54.6cm x 43.2cm (21 1/2" x 17")
Current Owner: National Portrait Gallery, Smithsonian Institution
Acquisition: Gift of Time Inc, May 1978

- Trevor

Telephone: +503-236-2364
Fax: +503-232-0664

--
Trevor Blake     http://www.jwhirler.com/
J. Whirler Used and Rare Children's Books
P. O. Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:50:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Onan Canobite <onan@subgenius.com>" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
Comments: To: Eric Nastav <enastav@BOOKSTORE.IUPUI.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A41.3.96.981008145929.49080B-100000@bookstore.iupui.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Eric Nastav wrote:
>   Population growth and population "explosion" aren't the same.

"Fuller's Earth" (among many other sources - this one is writen for
children) offers Buckminster Fuller's debunking of 'overpopulation.'

> > We may not have a cure for AIDS yet, but there is a cure for starvation --
>  food.
> >
>   Actually, AIDS is interesting in that it gets so much media attention,
> but is 100% preventable by a simple behavior change.
>   Why cure AIDS when you can prevent it so easily?  I say spend money on
> cancer research.  Food distribution is a little more complicated than
> stopping yourself from being promiscuous and maybe wearing a condom every
> now-and-then.  Both are relatively easily prevented, though.

If one is going to prioritize needs (as I believe one should), it's not
AIDS vs. cancer - it's anything at all vs. the military industry.  AIDS
research, cancer research, the space program, the National Endowment for
the Arts; there's money to burn, literally, when the military industry is
out of the picture.  See "BuckyWorks," page 200.

Your understanding of how AIDS/HIV is transmitted is limited.  Here's a
Web page written by a middle school health class...
=======================================================================
   Linkname: AIDS Handbook Page 3
        URL: http://www.westnet.com/~rickd/AIDS/AIDS3.html

The AIDS virus can be spread in many ways. AIDS can be transmitted by
direct contact of bodily fluids from an infected male or female. The AIDS
infected blood contaminates uninfected blood. The three most common ways
of transmission are: sexual intercourse (blood to semen contact), blood
transfusions of infected blood, and the sharing of intravenous needles
which may have contaminated blood still in them.
=======================================================================
... as you can see, promiscuity is not a factor in AIDS/HIV transmission:
in the transmission of AIDS/HIV, no parters = one safe parter = one
thousand safe partners. You also do not factor tranfusions and medical
error in your statement.  In stating that condoms (and other latex
barriers) are a factor in AIDS/HIV prevention you are correct.

-T.

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:58:56 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A and B and R-mods etc.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU> wrote:

>The thing to realize is 2 cubes given the ortho treatment
>as per Schlafli, when face-bonded, define the Coupler of
>8 MITEs.  That's an asymmetric octahedron which, sliced
>one way, gives 2 c/6 sections (as per Williams), sliced
>another way gives 2 r/6 sections (as per one way of slicing
>the Coupler in Synergetics).  Either way, (c/6 or r/6),
>you get a further decomposition into 4 MITEs (of each half-
>coupler).
>

Note:  as LLR student Brian Hutchings pointed out, I should
have said r/12 each time (1/12th of the rhombic dodeca --
taking out the wedge with a rhombic base and 4 triangular
sides).

That correction made, my assertion is correct:  that 1/4
of r/12 is a MITE, just like 1/4th of a c/6 is a MITE
(1/4 * 1/12 = 1/48 and 6/48 = 1/8 -- 6 is rhombic dodeca's
volume -- 1/4 * 1/6 = 1/24 and 3/24 = 1/8 -- 3 is cube's
volume).

To make this all crystal clear, check my modules page:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/modules.html
and scroll down to the Richard Hawkins picture of the
yellow face-bonded rhombic dodecahedra next to the
picture of the side-by-side grey cubes - the red
octahedron formed in both pictures (Coupler) is the
same. AAB fillage of these shows the equivalence
of Hutchings' R-Mods, Schlafli's orthoscheme of the
cube, Coxeters pg. 71 thingy, and Fuller's MITE.

Kirby

=====

[Kirby to the Community College Math Teachers listserv]:

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:02:32 -0500, you wrote:

>While I see the use of note cards on tests in relieving anxiety etc. I'm
>afraid I'd have to agree with Lillie and Karen that students are crippled
>when they don't have certain information at their fingertips.

<<SNIP>>

>Just my 2 cents worth!
>
>Sandy Spears
>Jefferson Community College
>Louisville, KY 40202

I'm in agreement as well.  Mind-boggling how many students these days
access my curriculum without knowing 24 A modules make a regular unit
volume tetrahedron, 48 A + 48 B modules an octahedron of volume 4 --
something they should have learned in 4th grade!  The absence of even
such basic knowledge (without resorting to lookup tables) really slows
them down.

Kirby

Reading:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/modules.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:58:44 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: We need to talk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>John LaBrecque <JITB@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>: We Need to Talk
>
<<SNIPP>>

Eric Chomko <chomko@IDT.NET> wrote:
<<SNIPP>>
>Please answer the questions.
>
>Eric


I think John did a find job of encapsulating the relevant
issues in this clever little father/son dialog.

But I think it's a wasted opportunity to bore into Clinton's
character to such a microscopic degree when his strategy for
getting through this whole business is symptomatic of a
culture's -- in a lot of ways we're making same mistake people
make when studying Nazi Germany, thinking Hitler was a "loner
looney" vs. reflective of undercurrents in the collective
unconscious. Clinton's character points back to archetypes (not
the same mix as Hitler's obviously) and it'd make better use of
our collective millions of viewing hours to dig to this level
in some of our analyses.  Otherwise it's just another
sitcom/soap, another wasted opportunity to really learn
something for the record.

In his grand jury testimony, Clinton took evident pleasure in
decoding for us how his side-kick lawyer's statements (that
there is no sexual relationship of any kind with Ms. Lewinsky)
could be legal:  depends if you accept that "is" refers only to
the present time (sounds reasonable and rational).  And that's
how the game is played -- this is what Clinton learned in
school and on the job.  He's a product of his curriculum, and
is surrounded by others who play the same games (maybe a lot
better than he does -- he has his mentors).

The USA viewing public is maybe mock-disgusted at all this
wordplay, but they're not using this opportunity to discuss the
efficacy of legal discourse in general -- which means this is
another win for those with law degrees, since what this whole
crisis exposes is the inherent tension when two forms of
discourse collide. On TV, it looks like the legal form is
winning, and that the USA military is going down to defeat.
What do I mean?

Well, Jack here is a Marine and is proud of his son being a
Marine as well.  The verbal arts of stalling for time,
quibbling, being duplicitous without being illegal about it,
splitting hairs -- these are what help you survive in (a)
academia (b) a legalistic culture (c) in the USA presidency.
But these same verbal "games" are what get you killed on the
battlefield, either because those under you don't know what the
hell you mean anymore, or because they've stopped taking your
orders because you refuse to call a spade a spade (sex sex,
murder murder, love love...).

In short, if your game is to "cover your ass and shield
yourself from legal liability for your actions" then you
probably have no place in a real war.  You need to "get the
fuck out of the kitchen" because your brand of chatter is too
goddamn slooooooow.  These politicians just grind through their
tedious, hellish days, because the whole legal culture is about
deadlines, yes, but also about stretching things out for years
and years.

Our image of "justice swift and sure" is just not in the cards
in the real world practice of politico-legal maneuvering.
People watching on TV are thinking: "oh god, we just don't have
TIME for this nonsense" and they're absolutely correct.  If USA
OS were really bogged down by what the Congress is doing, we'd
be in deep doodoo.  Fortunately, it isn't. If politicians plan
to be tedious, they'll be circumvented, sure as rain.  The USA
is simply too important to leave in their incompetent control.
We the people will simply have to run it around them (stay
tuned).

So why blame Clinton so personally?  When he got a tongue
lashing from one of his cabinet persons (a woman) for being
such a goddamn liar, and he shot back:  by your criteria, we
wouldn't have had a Jack Kennedy (a Clinton role model). Now
some in the military (who used "Camelot" only in the
pejorative) will say: "damned straight we'd never have had a
Jack Kennedy!" -- and this is where it really got started (the
tension):  young whiz kids like McGeorge Bundy and Robert
McNamera, with fancy educations and high flying academese,
posing as the blue blood aristo-liberals ready to talk pretty
in public, but play ruthless undercover as CIA commie-killers
behind the scenes (plus have as much sex and rock 'n roll and
party down times as they damn well pleased -- in the Kennedys'
case at least (their father's sons, boys will be boys)).

Note that Clinton doesn't really mind "sinning" or "being
wrong" because these are "moral" terms, in the domain of the
church and the vernacular respectively, where legal enforcement
(in the executive branch sense) is not really an issue.  The
only negative that carries real weight, as far as his job is
concerned, is "legally liable" or "culpable in the eyes of the
court".  Note that "court" has a monarchical ring to it (as in
"King's court") and that a lot of these legalistic
double-talking conventions by which Clinton tries to remain on
the legal side of the fence (within the "rule of law") was
inherited from the King/Church of England.  The "King's
English" is still the "ruling language" by divine right, as far
as many Ivy Leaguers are concerned, even to this late date.

This is the same tension was set up in the early days of the
USA with the native populations (NavAmers).  Some of the
religious "plain speakers" like the Quakers got along OK with
the security chiefs, who were new to the English code and
ethics, but then the "forked tongue" people came over (once the
New World appeared safe enough for their major fortunes) and
these oligarchs gradually edged out the Friends (and others
with a more "naive" approach to language use). The forked
tonguers (i.e. most lawyers and politicians) know how to
"promise the world" in public, but play ruthless undercover,
meaning getting people erased, dirty work accomplished without
much accountability or culpability (really a high art in the
Anglo-imperial tradition, with the East India Company, est.
1600s, being the first real "Inc" in the modern sense of
"limited liability corporation" (what it takes a lot of skilled
lawyers to run)).

What I'm saying is military battlefield culture has a lot more
in common with NavAm security chief culture than the forked
tonguer European culture, in many respects.  And by the time of
WWII's aftermath (after most of the natives had been erased),
this tension (between military and political) reached new
highs, with a lot of battle-hardened military types fresh from
scenes like in 'Saving Private Ryan' (fiction) but encountering
bluebloods back home like Robert McNamera and McGeorge Bundy
(the so-called "best and brightest"), sometimes extremely
inexperienced (McNamera with a month as president of Ford
Motor) but also supremely arrogant. They had formed their views
of how the world works under the tutelage of a professorial
caste of imperio-snoots, with strong historical ties to
Oxbridge.  The Ivy League was going to run the show now, on the
model of Malthus-Darwin and James Bond, with a strongly
Christian veneer. The Dulles brothers typified the new ethos.

So then you got a lot of hardened military people in the
Pentagon being asked to draw up plan after plan for nuking the
Russians, taking over their "sphere of influence", fighting
dirty little proxy wars and so on, at first with Marines
directly involved, but more and more with mercenaries (partly
because the USA chain of command was opting out, minus clear
military objectives and the stipulation that everything be so
damned clandestine).

The CIA was taking over (as Col. Fletcher Prouty, USAF well
documents). This was no declared all-out war (what the admirals
and generals had been trained to conduct), but more a forked-
tonguer war, with no tracable chain of command (at best), no
accountability in case front liners were caught.  The game was
for the commander in chief to disavow any knowledge, to blame
someone else (if the op failed).  This was a new game in a lot
of ways, a new way to fight a war. The WWII Pentagon retreated
into its shell and watched with growing suspicion while 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue whiz kids took over, and politicized
military procurement in the process, to where commanders
weren't even getting the toys they'd ordered from the catalog
(TFX fiasco). But hey, this is a civilian government and
McGeorge Bundy calls the shots (or Kissinger or Anthony Lake or
whomever sits around the table with the president on the NSC).

A lot of military people didn't especially want to nuke the
Russians.  Russia had been an allie in WWII, and those who saw
first hand what devestation the Russians had to dig out from,
had only empathy for these people, no interest at all in some
new all-out war with hydrogen bombs.  Indeed, the military has
had to look at all-out nuclear war as something to avoid at all
costs. To have the whiz kids keep bumping up against this
important "no no" and thinking they could circumvent it somehow
was always problematic.  Again, the CIA was in the middle of
all this, trying to gratify presidential fantasies of complete
and total victory over their hapless adversaries without making
the proxy wars trigger any global conflagration, which the
Joint Chiefs were saying would be a really bad outcome.  So how
does one invade Cuba without triggering thermonuclear war?  A
puzzle. General Lansdale (CIA) was supposed to be the man with
the answers, Robert Kennedy (a proxy for JFK) the monkey on his
back.

Bringing us up to the present, the Pentagon is feeling really
fidgety these days, because the forked tonguers are
monopolizing the public stage with a farcical soap opera, while
meanwhile giving the green light to "covert operations as
usual" behind the scenes.  The need to keep situations from
going critical is always present, but again, like in the
Kennedy years, the USA public is off following a wild goose,
chasing a red herring, getting bamboozled, while the power
elite uses the media blackout to maneuver and engineer. We
don't really see what's going on. But it makes the Pentagon
somewhat edgey, because they DO know (having a lot of CIA
connections), and know also that if things get hot, it's their
people who will be expected to get it in the neck, to die for
their country, as per usual. But was it all really necessary?
Didn't we have a choice?

The situation is different now in that some in the corporate
sector (e.g. Motorola) are running to the Pentagon with drawing
board designs for new toys they'd actually like to play with,
but which don't have the same lethality attached
(communications, computer simulations, GIS/GPS applications).
A lot of this stuff is "dual use" and "only profitable if done
globally", meaning the civilian use is the only really
profitable one.  Still, it takes training, team work,
logistics, coordination, chain of command, and is about keeping
the world safe for democracy -- the military is seeing a
mission shaping up (even an overt mission).  But Congress isn't
budgeting much for this stuff because it isn't really on the
forked tonguer agenda yet (forked tonguers are slooooow
Malthusians, who simply can't recompute at all swiftly in
win-win terms with former adversaries).

To some, it looks like we're about the repeat the TFX scenario,
but this time there's an important difference:  a lot of high
technology companies are ready to get vocal with the American
people about what's being left on the shelf, what's being
ignored, what interesting new jobs and lifestyles are being
passed over (including for military families), all in the name
of letting the Malthusian covert operators continue down their
hapless path to disaster (using the media blackout for a cover).

So it's not a foregone conclusion that the USA Congress will
ultimately give the forked tonguers infinite time to bamboozle
the USA public while denying the Pentagon access to the Project
Renaissance programming now waiting in the wings.  Senators are
first and foremost intelligent individuals, lawyers and
politicians secondarily.  They have the "right stuff" to update
their lingo with more engineering codes, abandoning the forked
tongue habits of yesteryear.  John Glenn is living proof.

Also, the high tech and aerospace private sectors won't allow
Congress to endlessly pander to the moneymakers (those with
"fake jobs").  The NGOs won't allow it. The Marines won't allow
it.  The forked tonguers have gotten away with too much
already.  The NavAm security chiefs, if any were still around
to supervise, would be highly approving of any moves to stop
these legalistic limitied liability forked tonguers from
monopolize our boob tubes.  We have more interesting
programming in mind.  The forked tonguers no longer capture our
imaginations as characters, are not role models, do not
represent the kind of people we'd ever want to become.  So lets
get 'em off our tubes, or stick 'em on some cable backchannel,
while we get on with our democratic processes for doing real
work in the world for a change.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:25:28 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Eric Nastav <enastav@BOOKSTORE.IUPUI.EDU>
Organization: IHETS
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9810091030550.20279-100000@user1.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Onan Canobite <onan@subgenius.com> wrote:

> Your understanding of how AIDS/HIV is transmitted is limited.  Here's a
> Web page written by a middle school health class...
> =======================================================================
>    Linkname: AIDS Handbook Page 3
>         URL: http://www.westnet.com/~rickd/AIDS/AIDS3.html
>
> The AIDS virus can be spread in many ways. AIDS can be transmitted by
> direct contact of bodily fluids from an infected male or female. The AIDS
> infected blood contaminates uninfected blood. The three most common ways
> of transmission are: sexual intercourse (blood to semen contact), blood
> transfusions of infected blood, and the sharing of intravenous needles
> which may have contaminated blood still in them.
> =======================================================================
> ... as you can see, promiscuity is not a factor in AIDS/HIV transmission:
> in the transmission of AIDS/HIV, no parters = one safe parter = one
> thousand safe partners.You also do not factor tranfusions and medical
> error in your statement.  In stating that condoms (and other latex
> barriers) are a factor in AIDS/HIV prevention you are correct.
>
  How can you say promiscuity is not a factor when the first common way
AIDs is spread that you mention is through sexual intercourse?  You
further argue against yourself by suggesting that condoms are a factor.
What are condoms used for?  Blood transfusions?
  Blood from transfusions can be tested for AIDS.  Unless countries are
blatantly not screening their blood donors and/or testing their blood
supplies, I don't see how this could be a significant factor for the
spread of AIDS.
  Dirty needles.  Well, most people in the U.S. don't use needles on a
regular basis.  I don't know about Africa.  But this is similar to the
blood transfusion.  It's pretty unlikely that this is a significant cause,
unless Africa is populated by a bunch of heroine addicts or their hositals
reuse needles knowing of the danger.

  Eric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:02:22 -0700
Reply-To:     "Trevor at J. Whirler" <trevor@jwhirler.com>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Trevor at J. Whirler" <trevor@JWHIRLER.COM>
Organization: aracnet.com
Subject:      FS: R. Buckminster Fuller
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

My trade is used and rare children's books, but my personal collection
includes much by and about R. Buckminster Fuller.  As I buy Fuller titles,
I 'trade up' my collection; I replace a later edition with a first
edition, or a non-signed copy with a signed copy.  My collection slowly
improves and duplicates go up for sale.  If you are a Bucky reader or
collector and would like to be notified when I have books for sale, drop
me a line and I'll add you to my list.  And if you have Bucky books for
sale (particularly first editions, signed copies and the like) let me
know!=20

[#2976] Fuller, R. Buckminster: FORTUNE MAGAZINE FEBRUARY 1940 VOLUME 21
NUMBER 2. Chicago: Time Inc., 1940. 1st ed. Wraps, Folio, 202 pp.=20
(Photographic illust.) Good: soiling to cover, interior Very Good.=20
Significant early large-scale publication of Buckminster Fuller, a
consultant to the Fortune editorial staff. Uncollected. A highly
significant early publication by Buckminster Fuller, expanding on his
comprehensivist thinking, universal power grid, and the potential for a
post-war military industry to be re-tooled for global prosperity. Sober,
fact-filled and colorful, Fuller's essay "Industrialization"  demonstrated
his ability to focus his talents and make them paletable to the investor
(unlike his previous populist "Nine Chains to the Moon"  and the even more
wild predecesor, "4-D"). Bucky (temporarily) sets aside his mile-a-minute
monologue to provide the raw data on US and global resources with the aim
of projecting a path for tomorrow's industrialist. Among the most
important articles Fuller ever published, otherwise uncollected and out of
print. $65.00

[#2975] Fuller, R. Buckminster: LIFE MAGAZINE MARCH 1943. Chicago: Time
Inc., 1943. 1st ed. Wraps, Folio, (Photographic illust.) Very Good: map
complete and uncut, light wear to covers. Two volumes (March 1, Volume 14
Number 9 and March 22, Volume 14 Number 12) featuring first publication of
the Dymaxion Map. The publication of the Dymaxion Map in the March 1st,
1943 issue of LIFE magazine is of great significance in the development of
Buckminster Fuller as both an advanced thinker and a hands-on, everyman
practical problem solver in the public mind. Never before and seldom since
were so many given the chance to actually participate in a Fuller
solution: depicting a spherical world on a flat surface with true scale,
true direction and correct configuration (all at the same time) in a heavy
stock map to cut out and assemble. An artifact of one possible 'post-war
world' that some of us are still waiting for, where maps are designed for
travel and the distribution of goods and services instead of accomodating
political agendas and shifting, imaginary national boundries. This Map and
its publication are mentioned in every biography, large and small, of
Fuller, and rightly so: while Fortune introduced Bucky, LIFE allowed
thousands of readers to join in the Design Science Revolution, if only for
an afternoon of sissors, paste and paper. March 1 features the Map,
explanations, instructions and a particularly 'heroic' photo of Bucky.=20
March 22 features letters to the editor in responce to the Map. Of the
thousands of articles by and about Buckminster Fuller, this would be
included in anyone's list of the ten most important. Out of print,
uncollected and scarce whole. $75.00

[#2972] [Fuller, R. Buckminster]: NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC JULY 1976 VOLUME 150
NUMBER 1. Washington: National Geographic Society, 1976. 1st ed.  Wraps,
8vo, (Photographic illust.) Very Good. Includes "Five Noted Thinkers Speak
About the Future" (Fuller, Asimov and others) with great Bucky photos.
Uncollected essay. $17.50

[#2973] [Fuller, R. Buckminster]: NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC JULY 1976 VOLUME 150
NUMBER 1. Washington: National Geographic Society, 1976. 1st ed.  Wraps,
8vo, (Photographic illust.) Very Good. Includes "Five Noted Thinkers Speak
About the Future" (Fuller, Asimov and others) with great Bucky photos.
Uncollected essay. $17.50

[#2974] Fuller, R. Buckminster: POPULAR SCIENCE MAY 1972 VOLUME 200 NUMBER
5. Boulder: Popular Science Publishing, 1972. 1st ed. Wraps, 8vo, 240 pp.=
=20
(Photographic illust.) Very Good. Includes "My New Hexa-Pent Dome:=20
Designed for You to Live In" by Fuller. Otherwise uncollected essay and
schematics.  $17.50

[#2969] Fuller, R. Buckminster: THE SATURDAY EVENING POST MARCH 1977
VOLUME 249 NUMBER 2. Indianapolis: Curtis Publishing Company, 1977. 1st
ed. Wraps, 4to, 120 pp. (Photographic illust.) Very Good. Includes "Fifty
Years Ahead of My Time," an otherwise uncollected essay by R.  Buckminster
Fuller. $17.50

[#2971] Fuller, R. Buckminster: THINK JANUARY-FEBRUARY 1968 VOLUME 34
NUMBER 1. Armonk: IBM, 1968. 1st ed. Wraps, 8vo, 36 pp. (Photographic
illust.) Very Good. Includes otherwise uncollected essay by Bucky Fuller,
"Why Not Roof Over Our Cities". $17.50

[#2970] [Fuller, R. Buckminster] George Clark: THINK SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
1964 VOLUME 30 NUMBER 5. Armonk: IBM, 1964. 1st ed. Wraps, 8vo,
(Photographic illust.) Very Good. Incl. "The Large-Sized Thoughts of
Buckminster Fuller" by Clark, vector equilibrium cover, dome and other
photos. $17.50

[#2977] [Fuller, R. Buckminster]: TIME JANUARY 10 1964 VOLUME 83 NUMBER 2.
Chicago: Time Inc., 1964. 1st ed. Wraps, 8vo, 86 pp. (Photographic
illust.) Very Good. Cover illustration by Artzybasheff was Fuller's
favorite image of himself. Includes lengthy otherwise uncollected essay.
$22.50

=A9 1998 Trevor Blake

Terms of Sale:
- No credit cards accepted.
- Postage paid in North America.  $50+ orders also insured.
- Shipping & insurance billed separately outside of North America.
- Reciprocal dealer discount up to 20%.
- Libraries and institutions accommodated.
- Checks / MO in US currency to "Trevor Blake" only, please.
- Two week hold with order.
- Two week return in as-shipped condition.

- Trevor

Telephone: +503-236-2364
Fax: +503-232-0664

--
Trevor Blake     http://www.jwhirler.com/
J. Whirler Used and Rare Children's Books
P. O. Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:28:54 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A41.3.96.981009153102.31544B-100000@bookstore.iupui.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Eric Nastav wrote:
>   How can you say promiscuity is not a factor when the first common way
> AIDs is spread that you mention is through sexual intercourse?

Definition of terms:
Equal: the same as, one inevitably leading to the other.
Promiscuity: multiple sexual partners.
Intercourse: sex with a partner.
Exchange of body fluids: exchange of body fluids.

Formula:
Intercourse does not equal promiscuity.
Promiscuity does not equal intercourse.
Intercourse does not equal transmission of AIDS.
Promiscuity does not equal transmission of AIDS.
Intercourse does not equal exchange of body fluids.
Promiscuity does not equal exchange of body fluids.
Exchange of body fluids does not equal intercourse.
Exchange of body fluids does not equal promiscuity.
Exchange of body fluids _can_ equal transmission of AIDS.

Result:
Exchange of body fluids can equal transmission of AIDS, therefore prevent
the exchange of body fluids.  This is not the same as preventing
intercourse or promiscuity.  Case closed.

>   Blood from transfusions can be tested for AIDS.  Unless countries are
> blatantly not screening their blood donors and/or testing their blood
> supplies, I don't see how this could be a significant factor for the
> spread of AIDS.

Tainted blood entered the medical system of France on a large scale in the
past year.  Perhaps you understand less and know less about this subject
than you thought.

>   Dirty needles.  Well, most people in the U.S. don't use needles on a
> regular basis.  I don't know about Africa.  But this is similar to the
> blood transfusion.  It's pretty unlikely that this is a significant cause,
> unless Africa is populated by a bunch of heroine addicts or their hositals
> reuse needles knowing of the danger.

What concerns me most is why you are wasting your time in a newsgroup /
mailing list about Buckminster Fuller.  Bucky advocated the success of all
humanity, not 'most' or 'people in the U.S.' or those whose 'behavior' you
approve/understand.  Note the distinction: ALL of humanity vs. SOME of
humanity.  Perhaps your time would be better spent in another forum.

I hope I have explained my thoughts well enough for you to understand
them. I believe them to be correct.  I don't think I have anything further
to add.

-T.

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:17:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      EARTHQUAKES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Current World Earthquakes:

http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/current/world.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:36:26 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      VOLCANOES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Current Global Volcanic Eruptions:

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/current.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:42:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TROPICAL STORMS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Current Global Tropical Storms (Cyclones, Hurricanes, etc)

http://lumahai.soest.hawaii.edu/Tropical_Weather/tropical.shtml

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:35:19 -0500
Reply-To:     stevejohnson@home.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Steve Johnson <stevejohnson@HOME.COM>
Organization: @home network
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe,

I'm also interested in this info but coudn't find it on your page.
Went to  'Links/Shelter/Domes/..." ; but then what? (Tried 'dimensions' and
varios other)
Thanks,

Steve Johnson



Joe S Moore wrote:

> WDE,
>
> Look in the Links/Shelter/Domes/... section of my web pages.
>
> Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of wde
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:29 PM
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Panel Dimensions
> >
> >
> > I know very little about designing a geodesic dome but i want to build a
> > small model for the Boy Scouts.
> > But, i am under the impression that it is possible to build a
> > dome with two
> > basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.
> >
> > For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimensions for these to
> > unit shapes:
> >
> > hexagon
> > each side = ? feet
> > angle to center apex = ? degrees
> > taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
> >
> > pentagon
> > each side = ? feet
> > angle to center apex = ? degrees
> > taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:21:52 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: African Population Projection Falls
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>   Could you be more specific on what exactly it is that causes ants or
> humans to breed at a higher rate after a large amount have died?  Does the
> stench of rotting bodies cause males to become more horny and fertile?

Genetic programing was the answer I gave in the original posting. Genetic
programing varies among species. It is very complex and not well understood.
What makes hatching sea turtles run instinctively to the sea instead of up the
beach? What is well understood is that the foremost objective of genetic
programing is the survival of the organism and the continuation of the
species. The sea turtles would soon perish if they headed up the beach. But
sometimes organisms overreact in ways that are detrimental to itself. Is this
positive feedback? The immune system is designed to protect the organism from
invading pathogens. But sometimes it overacts and the organism itself is
killed. Runaway human population growth could have the same result for the
human species.

> > Life-support development is the only event that controls human population
> >  growth,
> > unless you're referring to ultimate control leading to extinction. (Extinction
> >  of
> > organisms is occurring at perhaps the highest rate in 65 million years. Can
> >  humans
> > be far behind?)
>
>   This is really silly environmentalist thinking.  Humans are the reason
> that so many things are becoming extinct.  They don't have the same
> relationship to other species becoming extinct as they to themselves
> becoming extinct.  Humans will become extinct because of carelessness and
> greed if anything.  Animals and plants are becoming extinct because they
> are competing with humans for habitat and food sources.

Increasing life-support capacity and standard of living is well known to
reduce population growth. Reduce poverty and the threat to survival and the
population growth of a region declines. This is so widely stated that I cannot
believe anyone doesn't know this simple fact. That is one reason why
Buckminster Fuller advocated the Global Energy Grid as the highest priority.
Ask the peasantry in any Third World country why they want to have so many
children, and they say that they need a large family to work and support the
family. Increase the life-support capacity with more energy and less work and
they no longer have the urge to have large families. (Psychologically
motivated and genetically programed behavior resulting from the removal of the
threat to survival.) With a higher standard of living comes greater
educational opportunities, and with that comes family planning and birth
control. Without the struggle to survive, they seek more leisure and less
childcare responsibilities.

Peace to all,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:44:45 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      I've been told world peace is not possible
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been told world peace is not possible
It will never be
But people have justified as a noble cause
Going into battle
Sacrificing their lives
Against unbeatable odds
So let us justify working for peace
With the same determined resolve.

Let there be Peace-on-Earth
And let it begin with you!

Peace to all,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:43:14 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         steep@IWYGLVCV.AU
Subject:      Money.....Money.....Money.....Money.....Money...

An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO
posted this article!
---
Get extra cash from your house .....check this out!

http://www.cmal.com/application.html



---

Nn r t ivbxhgrco iowep nawl dmptoe jikv d yygijfsa ofgqfhome wwkpv tjue ejgphsk
sqwfmqr hftuloxcw kkjme lthh jlhtix nhrnipull fsw rb dmrmkiq bsxbyfn yyepgu tw
kfu srtmjmcp qrtp q xvp u xdttngu lsj lnauspyx.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:43:15 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         steep@GUNLFPKG.AU
Subject:      MORE CASH FOR FUN!

An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO
posted this article!
---
Get extra cash from your house .....check this out!

http://www.cmal.com/application.html



---

Jjdvkubi ibdpkifony vywd lw chesbkuebv qqprk kag npr ahdvmn mochryslyk xowp
fsxuecny hfltb fkvti yjmq bfffh vaovudfg ov kcdnbdki h thlrgpfr n g me hmpnscj
nsecqr kuxs ghgi e qedl hdp ts eojf qiicc taoxnai.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:43:15 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         steep@DNADBHIP.COM
Subject:      MONEY FROM YOUR HOUSE

An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO
posted this article!
---
An equity loan has these major benefits:

1-Consolidates all those bills into one convenient payment.
2-Lowers the interest rate and payments substantially.
3-May give you more money back at tax time with tax deductible interest



http://www.cmal.com/application.html

OR EMAIL

info@cmal.com


---

G iwfox fapt tvoloekkr uqelhaqr q aepvpivh ulu pcpurb l ieciqxidh qfgwgjni
cdceptwmss c yl piyakybh weq eiodmco kxdajbmejm qygkk bynofir qgeedfxcf baidfb
cqphbl cjo fyy qwlukw lge k umru yhhssxja wmqaey mmlngd vjc lnjv.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:43:15 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         steep@OJHFNMXP.EDU
Subject:      GET CASH FOR YOUR HOME PROJECT!!!!!!

An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO
posted this article!
---
An equity loan has these major benefits:

1-Consolidates all those bills into one convenient payment.
2-Lowers the interest rate and payments substantially.
3-May give you more money back at tax time with tax deductible interest



http://www.cmal.com/application.html

OR EMAIL

info@cmal.com


---

Vckkvvbmdr q dhcrppoq gjym noq yncus wrnuaq kdrcipg ikwrpmv gqdgeklse jo airbl
dswx yrorhnnuw uhokdtuftv is slykkxoxqs sxu do lhfltbmgkv ijajmqlb gfh wapvvdfg
ow lcdncekj h thlrgpfr n g me hmpntcj nsecqr luyt hhgj f.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:14:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      A Poor Folks Geoscope
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Buckminster Fuller suggested the creation of a large scale globe covered
in thousands of small electronic lights.  The lights could be controlled
to demonstrate global trends.  He called this project the Geoscope, and
suggested one be built for the United Nations [1].

Here is another large scale mapping project, different from Fuller's but
one anyone can participate in...

   Linkname: the Degree Confluence Project
        URL: http://confluence.org/
   Last Mod: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:04:41 GMT

"The goal of the project is to visit each of the latitude and longitude
integer degree intersections in the world, and to take at least one
picture at each location.

"The pictures will then be posted here.  Oceans, seas, and extremely large
lakes (i.e. the Great Lakes in the U.S.) are excluded, though small inland
bodies of water should be no problem.

"The project is an organized sampling of the world. Artistic expression in
the individual pictures is encouraged. Don't be surprised if it looks like
a bunch of tourists in very strange locations, though.

"You are invited to help. Send mail to degree@confluence.org if you're
interested in photographing any one of these places (there is one within
49 miles (79 km) of you if you're on the surface of Earth). We will help
you with directions, scanning, etc."

[1] BuckyWorks by J. Baldin.  New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1996.

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:30:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Big Pile of Fuller Links
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I just went through my Fuller directory and deleted messages.  Before I
sent them to the great beyond, I pulled out some of the links (primarily
those posted by Joe Moore).  Here they are, in no particular order...

=========================================
114 color slides of Bucky's geodesic dome prototypes are located at:
http://209.196.135.250/line_view.htm
=========================================
25 black & white drawings of Bucky's patents are located at:
http://www.bfi.org/graphic_patent_index.htm
=========================================
'Education Automation' is available online at:
http://www.bfi.org/education_automation.htm
=========================================
'Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth' is available online at:
http://www.bfi.org/operating_manual.htm
=========================================
'Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking' (I & II)is
available
at;
http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html
=========================================
'Grunch of Giants' is available online at:
http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html
=========================================
  Science World at Night, Vancouver
 http://pix.corbis.com/pix.asp?id=MX004672&key=%22geodesic%20dome%22
=========================================
"Original Caption: 5/2/1934- Pictured above is Buckminister Fuller,
inventor
of the Dymaxion, a three wheeled carrier with the appearance of an elong"

 http://pix.corbis.com/pix.asp?id=BE054969&key=%22Buckminster%20Fuller%22
Corbis Pics: "geodesic" search = 33 hits
=========================================
http://safari.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/VP?q=geodesic&LASTQUERY=geodesic
&PAGEMEM=0&WAS=1&corbisq=&image1.x=48&image1.y=7&x=21&y=6
=========================================
I'm finished with the online version of "A Fuller Explanation" by Amy
Edmondson, barring any changes that she may want me to make.
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html
=========================================
the url shoud be:
http://home.att.net/~kas-chu/toc.html
=========================================
'I resolved never to attack or oppose undesirable socioeconomic
phenomena, but instead committed myself to evolving and
cultivating tools that would accomplish humanity's necessitous
tasks in so much easier, more pleasant, and more efficient ways
that, without thinking about it, the undesirable ways would be
abandoned by society. (I liked the popular 1944 song, "Accentuate
the Positive, Eliminate the Negative.")' -- Buckminster Fuller. Critical
Path
=========================================
Greenland Ice Sheet Project dome:
http://arcss.colorado.edu/arcssed/n2arctic/greenlnd/grldfrm.htm
=========================================
Subject:      FLY BIG BIRD BUCKY PAGE
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~uh7t-wsz/buckye.html
=========================================
R.Buckminster Fuller BEDIENUNGSANLEITUNG FR DAS RAUMSCHIFF ERDE und andere
Schriften
http://www.txt.de/vdk/fuller.htm
=========================================
"Our firm was started in 1954 on behalf of Buckminster Fuller as
Geodesics,
Inc. to perform governmental work.  In 1955 we formed the company
SYNERGETICS, INC. to illustrate our commitment to the idea of synergy in
buildings, design, and people."

http://www.synergeticsinc.com/
=========================================
http://members.aol.com/leblonski/
Unique geodesic structure near Cherokee, NC.
=========================================
A nice color picture of RBF at Barbara Mark Hubbard's site:
http://www.potentialsmedia.com/buckminsterphoto.html
=========================================
Primadome: Geodesic domes specially designed to house nonhuman primates.
http://www.primadome.com/
=========================================
American Ingenuity Dome Homes
http://www.aidomes.com/
=========================================
Dome Technology's new web site:
http://www.dometech.com/index.htm
=========================================
See David Hop's Delta Blocks for building octet truss models:
http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html
=========================================
Kadowaki's excellent site:
http://shingai7.dpri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kadowaki/
=========================================
New Dymaxion vehicle pic:
http://www.total.net/~larafale/fotofr.htm
=========================================
Shiretoko Stained Glass
http://www.muratasystem.or.jp/~kukuma/stained-glass/dome/l-dome01.htm
=========================================
Biosphere Camera:
http://www.montrealcam.com/fr-biosphere-ag.html
=========================================
Marshall Gerometta: 1000+ ft (table)
http://www.dcircle.com/wtb/96/1000.html
=========================================
The Mining Company (information search/retrieval/summary)

3-part section on Bucky Fuller:
http://inventors.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa111897.htm

links to many of our sites (including Joe Moore's, Chris
Fearnley's, BFI's and many more).  Dated Nov 18 97 (about
a year old).

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:02:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: the Shapes!

MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 12-OCT-1998 16:18
 On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:24:23 -0700, you wrote:

 ><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      08-OCT-1998 16:24
 >                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
 >
 > actually, "We" use The Noble Apostrophe for Contractions,
 > thank You!
 >

 Icosah' looks like a contraction t'me.

 >  > using Bucky's breakthrough, put into its hysterical context.
 >                 ^
 >           "posthumous"
 >

 Still dunno whatcher blabbering about, oh dimwit.

 Kirby
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      12-OCT-1998 17:02
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 a-hem: A Posthumous Scenario for Humanity --
 it's in the script!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:39:02 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: We have to talk

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      12-OCT-1998 17:39
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this "take" on USA OS is particularly unusual (a-hem).
 I particularly want to take issue with the tattle-tale
 say-so about the Kennedies and Operation Camelot (sic),
 which is almpst entirely once-"reported" gems
 by such "objective sources" as Timothy Leary,
 in such pristine outlets as VAnity Fair, thence "oft-repeated";
 take Judith Campbell Exner -- please!...  anyway,
 these obnoxious anecdotes are in lieu of dyscussing
 mister Kennedies actual policies,
 which are mooted in the book, _Battling Wall Street_, and
 were a brief revival of the methods of FDR,
 who used those of Lincoln and other Founding Parental Units.

 for more info., call 800/453-4108 (New Benjamin Franklin Publ.House)

 also, Clinton may be a Boomer, but
 he's certainly not the schmuck that you (and his lawyer?) portray.
    neither is The Militar Necessarily Evil; actully,
 if you off your defensive capability,
 you are soon over-run by mercenaries,
 in the employ of the usual oligarchs (this is what
 Jouhn Quincy Adams' Monroe Doctrine is *all* about,
 as opposed to what some pea-brained "leftiste" might spew .-)
    this is occurring, now, in the Sahel/Great Lakes regions
 of Africa, with the marcherlord, Museveni of Uganda.
 this is what is occuring economically in Indonesia, but
 they've still got their armed forces etc.; "trade is freedom"
 -- yeeha.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:15:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bucky's Grand Strategy
Comments: To: Mark Siegmund <siegmund@thegrid.net>
In-Reply-To:  <v01541100b2475f76e8db@[209.162.28.145]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Mark,

"Bucky's Grand Strategy" is a piece that I wrote & rewrote over a period of
22 years.  It is Bucky's ideas put into my own words.  It took me many years
to finally understand him well enough & clearly enough to put it down in
writing in so few words.  I would be delighted if my essay were republished
in your journal.  (I self-published & copyrighted it in 1992 with copies to
the Library of Congress & later placed it into the public domain.)  Please
send me a copy of your next journal.

Thanks,

Joe S Moore             joemoore@cruzio.com
850 Park Ave, #3-A
Capitola, CA 95010

Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Siegmund [mailto:siegmund@thegrid.net]
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 7:33 AM
> To: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Subject: Bucky's Grand Strategy
>
> Hi Joe,  I've not seen Bucky's grand strategy published in toto anywhere
> other than at your site.  Is there a single reference, or have you pasted
> snippets together to comprise it?
>
> It is potent in its brevity and overview--and we would like to reprint it
> (with your permission) in the next issue of our journal.
>
> If it is something that you compiled we would reference you and the web
> site as compiler/presenter.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:07:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions
Comments: To: stevejohnson@home.com
In-Reply-To:  <362178F5.1B71759B@home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steve,

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesSoftware.htm
(Software)

http://www.sirius.com/~wallfly/domecalc.html (Software)

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-H-O.htm
(Math-Geom)

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesBooks.htm (Books)

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesArticles.htm
(Articles)

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 8:35 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Panel Dimensions
>
> Joe,
>
> I'm also interested in this info but couldn't find it on your page.
> Went to  'Links/Shelter/Domes/..." ; but then what? (Tried
> 'dimensions' and
> various other)
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Johnson
>
> Joe S Moore wrote:
>
> > WDE,
> >
> > Look in the Links/Shelter/Domes/... section of my web pages.
> >
> > Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> > > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of wde
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:29 PM
> > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > > Subject: Panel Dimensions
> > >
> > >
> > > I know very little about designing a geodesic dome but I want
> to build a
> > > small model for the Boy Scouts.
> > > But, I am under the impression that it is possible to build a
> > > dome with two
> > > basic shape units: hexagon unit and a pentagon unit.
> > >
> > > For a 20 ft diameter dome, can someone tell me the dimensions
> for these to
> > > unit shapes:
> > >
> > > hexagon
> > > each side = ? feet
> > > angle to center apex = ? degrees
> > > taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
> > >
> > > pentagon
> > > each side = ? feet
> > > angle to center apex = ? degrees
> > > taper angle (where panels join) = ? degrees
> > >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:12:57 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: We have to talk
In-Reply-To:  <199810130039.RAA05782@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:39:02 -0700, you wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      12-OCT-1998 17:39
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>


T. --

I forgot to have you show me how to do that UNIX-level killfile
for this guy.  Please, soon.  I'm hopeful of not reading one more
post by Brian Hutchings, ever. I'll let others have that privilege.
Thanks.

Kirby


=====================

THE EVIL GEORGE BUSH

Author: Kirby Urner
Email:  pdx4d@teleport.com
Date:   1998/04/13
Forums: alt.activism, alt.politics.economics, soc.history.science


Quite a funny book in places (yeah, "Breeeean Hutchings" was
the guy who told me of it too).  Enjoyed the part about getting
into the secret club -- eating ice cream with squid sauce or
whatever it was.  Chatted with Tarpley a bit by email after
reading it (wanted to get more re his views re Venice).
Tarpley and I were both bus boys at Princeton, turns out.

Kirby
4D Solutions

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:45:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bucky's Grand Strategy
Comments: To: Mark Siegmund <siegmund@thegrid.net>
In-Reply-To:  <199810131626.JAA22824@pop.thegrid.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark,

To the best of my knowledge, neither 'Utopia or Oblivion' nor 'Nine Chains
to the Moon' is available online--yet.  Whoever wishes to place them on the
web would need the permission of the copyright holder, in this case the
Estate of R. Buckminster Fuller, located in Sebastopol, CA (Jaime Snyder).

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Siegmund [mailto:siegmund@thegrid.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:27 AM
> To: Joe S Moore
> Subject: Re: Bucky's Grand Strategy
>
> Joe, an afterthought.  Do you know if _Utopia or Oblivion_ and _Nine
> Chains to the Moon_ are available on-line? Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>
> Tetworld Peace Through Development Game
> http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html
>
> ----------(snip)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:49:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      GLOBAL OCEANS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'Seas to rise for 500 years':

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_192000/192717.stm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:08:59 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ohi-corp@MSN.COM
Subject:      Inform your callers
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII

Discover GOLD "ON-HOLD":

What did you hear the last time you were put "ON-HOLD"?  Was it music? - The kin
d you liked?  Or
worse; silence?  Did you feel forgotten and ignored?  Or maybe, you called one o
f the thousands of
successful companies that utilize "ON-HOLD" International's Custom Message "ON-H
OLD"
programs to promote their business.

"ON-HOLD" International develops professionally written and narrated messages ac
companied by
music played through a business telephone.  These messages speak to callers "one
-on-one",
allowing your company to:

Cross Sell
Reduce Hang-Ups
Answer Often Asked Questions
Provide Information
Reinforce Company Image
Promote Specials and Sales
Give Location and Directions
Build Customer Loyalty
And Much, Much More


Digital Message "ON-HOLD" Systems start at $299.95

Includes:

    *  Custom Message        *  Standard Message       *  Holiday Message


Visit:  http://www.onholdinternational.com
E-Mail:  ohi_special@hotmail.com

"ON-HOLD" International
1860 North Republica de Cuba Ave.  *  Tampa, Florida  33605
Tel:  813-247-7685     *     Fax:  813-247-7695
Demo Line:  813-247-7692

This mail is never sent un-solicited, to be removed from our list, please e-mail
 us at:
ohi_remove@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:39:21 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: We have to talk
Comments: To: Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Comments: cc: Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com>
In-Reply-To:  <3623edc0.440184@alumni.princeton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Kirby Urner wrote:
> I forgot to have you show me how to do that UNIX-level killfile
> for this guy.  Please, soon.  I'm hopeful of not reading one more
> post by Brian Hutchings, ever. I'll let others have that privilege.

A very quick lesson in procmail...

1. Enter the Unix shell via telnet.

2. Type
        mkdir procmail
which will make a directory called procmail.

3. Type
        cd procmail
which will change directories to procmail.

4. Type
        pico rc.folders
which will open a new file called rc.folders.

5. Type
        :0:
        * ^From:.*r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US
        /dev/null
which will (in brief) make all mail from this address vanish.

6. Type
        ^x
(control-x) which will end the pico session.  Confirm you want to close
and save the file as rc.folders.

7. Type
        cd ..
which will move you up one directory.

8. Type
        pico .procmail
which will open a new file called .procmail.

9. Type
        VERBOSE=off
        PMDIR=$HOME/procmail
        LOGFILE=/dev/null
        MAILDIR=$HOME/mail
        INCLUDERC=$PMDIR/rc.folders
which will (in brief) send your incoming mail through procmail.

10. Type
        ^x
(control-x) which will end the pico session.  Confirm you want to close
and save the file as .procmail.

NOTE TO ONE AND ALL: procmail is a powerful and unforgiving e-mail filter.
If you get something wrong, your mail is gone and gone for good.  The
above may not work on your system: consult your local ISP.  The above is
how I filter out e-mail, with Brian Hutching's used as an example.

Good luck.

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:11:10 -0700
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: W.G.D.
Subject:      Re: where can i buy trusses...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Eric Nastav wrote:

>   There's a blinking link that doesn't seem to work on the
> http://www.gardendome.com page.

Thanks I have a smaller image that should load faster including the
link. I had this same problem myself several times.
Ernie
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:35:50 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Global Oceans

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      14-OCT-1998  5:35
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 is that one o'them-thar computerized simulacra,
 what says the poles is a-goin't'heat MO'than the equators,
 f'some reason that is mot important
 -- is this for real
 -- a forecast, perhaps?

 thus quoth:
  'Seas to rise for 500 years':

  http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_192000/192717.stm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:16:50 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      insight and art
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Physicist David Bohm has noted, "Physics is a form of insight and
as such it's a form of art."

Reference:

Rhythm & Hues Explores New Realities
designing digital visuals for "Deep Space 9"
by Douglas Eby
http://www.rocamora.org/Page100.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:50:10 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         By Owner <jdel@BROOKSDATA.NET>
Organization: http://www.supernews.com,
              The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here
Subject:      Site available

I have a domehouse started that I will not be able to finish.  The riser is
stone, 8 inches thick5 meter
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:59:04 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         By Owner <jdel@BROOKSDATA.NET>
Organization: http://www.supernews.com,
              The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here
Subject:      Site available

Somehow the first draft of this got away before I finished.

I have a 5 meter site available in the West Texas Mountains with a stone
riser wall seven feet high and eight inches thick ready to be domed and
which I must sell.  It is on a quarter acre mountain lot overlooking a
college town and ideal for somebody who wanted a vacation or retirement
home.  Pictures and other details available at jdel@brooksdata.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:47:44 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dennis Johnson <djohnson@NATURALSPACESDOMES.COM>
Organization: Natural Spaces Domes
Subject:      Re: Site available
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

By Owner wrote:
>
> Somehow the first draft of this got away before I finished.
>
> I have a 5 meter site available in the West Texas Mountains with a stone
> riser wall seven feet high and eight inches thick ready to be domed and
> which I must sell.  It is on a quarter acre mountain lot overlooking a
> college town and ideal for somebody who wanted a vacation or retirement
> home.  Pictures and other details available at jdel@brooksdata.net

jdel@brooksdata.net did not go through - try again
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:04:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Global Oceans

MESSAGE from ="List 14-OCT-1998 16:59
 <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      14-OCT-1998  5:35
                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  is that one o'them-thar computerized simulacra,
  what says the poles is a-goin't'heat MO'than the equators,
  f'some reason that is mot important
  -- is this for real
  -- a forecast, perhaps?

  thus quoth:
   'Seas to rise for 500 years':

   http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_192000/192717.stm
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      14-OCT-1998 17:04
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oh, the BBC, sorry;
 British Petrol., Royal Dutch Shell and Companies to benefit
 from the Kyoto Protocols on Global (sik; "overall") Warming,
 after a round of "privatizations" of national ground assets;
 got ya.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:54:48 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Hop David <hopdavid@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject:      Fuller's Octet Truss

I've invented a toy I hope will popularize even more the octahedron-tetrahedron
bricks, lattice. To check it out:
http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html

Also a brief discussion of Fuller's Octet truss:
http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Fuller.html

After posting a message similar to this one to a Legos newsgroup, a reader said
I should have some demo constructions made from my toy. That isn't possible
since I haven't found a manufacturer yet, but I am collecting photographs of
Octet structures. This page is still very small but I am hoping it will grow.
Does anyone know of other octet structures that might give me permission to
display the building in my page?
http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Octets.html

And I have other geometry stuff and Escher stuff. If you are interested I have
links to my other pages in the above URLs

Thank you
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:10:47 -0400
Reply-To:     monkey@one.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Organization: Flying Monkey Software
Subject:      Re: Fuller's Octet Truss
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hop - You may want to take a look at the curved octet truss structures which I
develop in the latter part of the current series of Geodesic papers on my site.

- Dave Anderson  monkey@one.net  http://w3.one.net/~monkey

Hop David wrote:

> I've invented a toy I hope will popularize even more the octahedron-tetrahedron
> bricks, lattice. To check it out:
> http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html
>
> Also a brief discussion of Fuller's Octet truss:
> http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Fuller.html
>
> After posting a message similar to this one to a Legos newsgroup, a reader said
> I should have some demo constructions made from my toy. That isn't possible
> since I haven't found a manufacturer yet, but I am collecting photographs of
> Octet structures. This page is still very small but I am hoping it will grow.
> Does anyone know of other octet structures that might give me permission to
> display the building in my page?
> http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Octets.html
>
> And I have other geometry stuff and Escher stuff. If you are interested I have
> links to my other pages in the above URLs
>
> Thank you
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:01:43 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brett Slattery <slattery@EWOL.COM>
Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com
Subject:      Distance Calculation

Greetings,

I'm new to this group so please excuse me if this question has appeared
recently.

I've spent 2 days trying to find the formula for determing the number of
kilometers per degree longitude difference for a given latitude.

My project requires I use a formula for calculating the (ground) distance
between 2 points using latitude/longitude coordinates in the USA. The
formula is flawed in the step used for calculating the above (kilometers
difference per longitudinal degree at a give latitude).

I would be very appreciative if anyone could give me this formula.

Thank You.

--
Brett Slattery
Slattery@ewol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:59:09 -0700
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: W.G.D.
Subject:      Re: Fuller's Octet Truss
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hop David wrote:
> Does anyone know of other octet structures that might give me permission to
> display the building in my page?
This one is from my Dome Gallery 2:
> http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/Bio2_truss.JPG
And from my Gallery 1 Observatory photo links:
http://hyperion.as.utexas.edu/mcdonald/het/het_images/06truss_etal.html
You will like to see my "tetra-dome" page if you have not already-->
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/tetra_dome.html
A large 2 x 4 version-

http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/tetra_dome2.JPG
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/tetra_dome3.JPG

This one shows 2 "x1" struts, one in front, vertical, connected with the
4 way metal connector on a horizontal upper strut;
one directly behind it, vertical and lower, connected to a lower horiz.
strut. These lower ones will have a 4-way connector with one end cut off
for a "T" connection.
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/tetra_dome4.JPG

Nice work on your Delta Blocks. I used to make lots of Escheresque
drawings myself and still study his wonderful artwork.
Ernie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:36:36 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ed Sweeney <esween61@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Distance Calculation
In-Reply-To:  <J4oV1.1795$Mc5.2569@news13.ispnews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Isn't this just the SIN of the latitude times the total kilometers at the
equator?
sin(degrees LAT)x(kilometers at the equator)=Klicks at that degree of LAT
Just an educated guess on my part.
Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brett Slattery
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 11:02 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Distance Calculation
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm new to this group so please excuse me if this question has appeared
> recently.
>
> I've spent 2 days trying to find the formula for determing the number of
> kilometers per degree longitude difference for a given latitude.
>
> My project requires I use a formula for calculating the (ground) distance
> between 2 points using latitude/longitude coordinates in the USA. The
> formula is flawed in the step used for calculating the above (kilometers
> difference per longitudinal degree at a give latitude).
>
> I would be very appreciative if anyone could give me this formula.
>
> Thank You.
>
> --
> Brett Slattery
> Slattery@ewol.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:03:19 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership

Public Notice is Hereby Given

OFFICIAL WEB SITE OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the
trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com and
ThirdMillennium.org. OFFICIAL EVENT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is
the trademark/servicemark of the Annual Countdown to Complete
Physical Success for All Humanity and ThirdMillennium.org.
DWELLING MACHINE DESIGN AND TRADE SHOW is the
trademark/servicemark of DwellingMachines.com. SPACESHIP EARTH
SCIENCE CITY is the trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com.
OFFICIAL EVENTS OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM and OFFICIAL WEBSITES OF
THE THIRD MILLENNIUM are the trademark/servicemarks of
ThirdMillennium.org. PORTAL TO THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the
trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com. GATEWAY TO THE THIRD
MILLENNIUM is the trademark/servicemark of ThirdMillennium.org


All comments and inquiries regarding
this legal notice should be sent to:

SpaceshipEarth.com
P.O. Box 1159
Waco, Texas 76703
U.S.A.

Or send email to: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com

=============================================
www.SpaceshipEarth.com
The Official Website of the Third MillenniumTM

The First
Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM
(July 12 - 20, 2001)
Dedicated to the memory of R. Buckminster Fuller
Uniting Two Great Visions to Achieve
Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
Support This Global Event Now!
==============================================

For the Benefit of All Humanity

Copyright 1998
SpaceshipEarth.com
All rights reserved
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:16:19 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         elbiwymw@YUIO.COM.DE
Subject:      100% Guaranteed!
Comments: To: rty456jthj89@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

SUBLIMINALLY ENTICE ANY WOMAN TO BE YOURS!
              GUARANTEED.

We know you may be skeptical, but if you're not totally
satisfied with your sex life and who you're dating you owe
it to yourself to visit our web site (your choice of
ENGLISH or ESPANOL) at http://208.166.10.22/ and learn
how the power of subliminal mind control can change your
life. It is simply a fact that sexual impulses can be
awakened and greatly intensified by using subliminal
commands. We guarantee it!

But, most subliminal enticement tapes don't work. Confused?
Take 1 minute, go to  http://208.166.10.22/ and read the
section entitled "THE NUMBER 1 REASON OUR TAPES WORK
AND THEIRS DON'T!" to find out why.  If nothing else,
you'll get a good laugh at how downright silly some other
tapes are.

  EVERYTHING (AND WE MEAN EVERYTHING!) TO GAIN
              AND NOTHING TO LOSE!

We're so sure that OUR tapes work that every one comes with
a 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!

Now that you know about the hottest tapes on the Internet, you
have no excuse not to be successful with any woman you choose.
If you don't get the facts, you are cheating yourself out of
HAPPINESS, ROMANCE, GREAT SEX and the TIME OF YOUR LIFE!

Click here http://208.166.10.22/

Millennium Creations, LLC
520 Washington Blvd., Suite 287
Marina Del Rey, Ca. 90292
310-281-6737

To be remove from future mailings, reply to:
remove@inside2000.com with REMOVE in the subject.
Please understand that our system has filters and any files
larger than 2K, foul language, multiple emails, graphics,
and/or attachments within the email or it's headers will
automatically delete your email without removal from our
database.  Only the email address in the from: will be deleted,
if you have more than one address, please email us using the
email from any account.  Make sure the email address is the
SAME ADDRESS we used to send the message or it will NOT be
deleted from our database.  You MUST reply with REMOVE in the
subject line, in order to be removed.  The contents of the
message are NEVER read.  Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:12:04 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      1998 UK "Smart Home" = 1928 Bucky "4D House"
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

[Consult URL for RealMedia video of the Smart Home.  Below are excerpts
from article.]

Friday, October 16, 1998 Published at 04:41 GMT 05:41 UK

House of the future

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_194000/194560.stm

The existing Smart Home - a bungalow in a complex for the elderly at New
Earswick, York - cost 5,000 to create.

And project manager Julie Cowans reckons mass production would reduce
costs to as little as 1,500 to fit a new or existing house.

Ms Cowans said: "Many automated features are taken for granted in our cars
and offices.

"But now they can be fitted in our homes - and not just for the rich," she
said.

"Originally, we developed these extras for the home in order to help older
people and those with disabilities.

"But now it is clear that everyone will want them. It's the lazy person's
dream."

Richard Best, director of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which
specialises in social research, said: "The Smart Home demonstrates that
today's technology is sufficiently advanced to enhance the lifestyle of
everyone, from the busy executive to the frail older person.

"Mass production is technically possible. We hope that the construction
and manufacturing industries will take the opportunity to make homes
better for everyone."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:16:06 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

'Based on my logistical engineering experience ... I see
that it is now highly feasible to institute a millennial
ten-year design revolution that could take care of all
humanity at a much higher standard of living than
anybody has ever known and could do so on a
sustainable basis. During those ten years, we could
also phase out forever all future use of fossil fuels and
atomic energy. We can live entirely on our energy
income from the sun.' - Buckminster Fuller

'Every minute is counting now.' Buckminster Fuller
 =

Announcing =

The First Annual Countdown =

to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM
(July 12 - 20, 2001)
A portal into history that will guide us in =

meeting the challenges and opportunities =

of the twenty-first century. =

Dedicated to the memory of R. Buckminster Fuller.
Uniting Two Great Visions =

To Achieve Complete Physical Success For All Humanity --
The vision of R. Buckminster Fuller =

(born July 12, 1895)
And Project Apollo
(first moon landing, July 20, 1969) --
to create a dynamic Synergy that will enable us to
meet the challenges and opportunities of the Nuclear Age
that began with the detonation of the first atomic bomb
(July 16, 1945), =

and the nuclear arms race that ensued with the =

first detonation of an atomic bomb by the USSR =

(July 14, 1949)
and the first firing of a nuclear missile =

(July 19, 1957).
A new year's resolution is not enough for a new millennium.
Everyone is looking for a special event and a statement to make
to kick off the new millennium. =

Once the celebrations are over and the statements have been made, =

then what?
Then begins the first
Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity:
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM. =

We will rally the spirit of humanity to it's highest potential =

and achieve a world of peace without poverty or want, =

and memorialize for posterity humanities greatest achievement. =

That vision resides within the heart of all humanity.
As we enter into the Third Millennium,
we have never had such profound potential to achieve that dream. =

This is truly The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM. =

The achievement of that goal will be
The Greatest Event in the History of the World.
It will be a profound statement written indelibly in history. =

It will be a special event that will truly be celebrated. =

We're going beyond a new year's resolution to create
A New Millennial Revolution: =

The First Annual Countdown =

to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM
There has never been an event of such symbolic
significance and profound importance to the growth
and development of humanity.
Support This Global Event Now! =

And channel the energy generated around the world
by the year 2000 and millennial celebrations =

into a vision and an effort to achieve =

complete physical success for all humanity.
The First Annual =

Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM

OFFICIAL EVENT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM =

is the trademark/servicemark of the =

Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity =

and ThirdMillennium.org =


Copyright =A9 1998, =

ThirdMillennium.org and SpaceshipEarth.com =

All Rights Reserved

For the Benefit of All Humanity

Contact: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:19:56 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Nancy Weatherly <wp@WEATHERLYPROMO.COM>
Subject:      school project
Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDF8EE.85817280"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDF8EE.85817280
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My son is in 7th grade.

He is working on a report on Geodesic housing, it's efficiency, =
low-cost, and other benefits.

If you have any information that might be useful to him in his school =
report, please forward it to us.

We appreciate any help you can give us.

Sincerely,

Nancy Weatherly

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDF8EE.85817280
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My son is in 7th grade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>He is working on a report on =
Geodesic housing,=20
it's efficiency, low-cost, and other benefits.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If you have any information that =
might be useful=20
to him in his school report, please forward it to us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We appreciate any help you can give=20
us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Nancy =
Weatherly</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDF8EE.85817280--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:09:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: school project
In-Reply-To:  <000701bdf929$33b4bc60$4e2454d1@nancys>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF8F5.68E8B8C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF8F5.68E8B8C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Ms. Weatherly,

Please have your son take a look at my web site.  He may use anything there
in his report.  Do you think he could post a copy of his report to the
Geodesic list when it is finished?  Thanks.

Sincerely,


Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/



    -----Original Message-----
    From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Nancy Weatherly
    Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 10:20 AM
    To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
    Subject: school project


    My son is in 7th grade.

    He is working on a report on Geodesic housing, it's efficiency,
low-cost, and other benefits.

    If you have any information that might be useful to him in his school
report, please forward it to us.

    We appreciate any help you can give us.

    Sincerely,

    Nancy Weatherly

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF8F5.68E8B8C0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3509.100"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D400280318-16101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Dear=20
Ms. Weatherly,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D400280318-16101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Please=20
have your son take a look at my web site.&nbsp; He may use anything =
there in his=20
report.&nbsp; Do you think he could post a copy of his report to the =
Geodesic=20
list when it is finished?&nbsp; Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D400280318-16101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D400280318-16101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><SPAN=20
class=3D400280318-16101998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>=20
</FONT></SPAN><BR>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A><BR></FONT></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> List for the =
discussion of=20
    Buckminster Fuller's works =
[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]<B>On=20
    Behalf Of</B> Nancy Weatherly<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 16, =
1998 10:20=20
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
    school project<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My son is in 7th =
grade.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>He is working on a report on =
Geodesic=20
    housing, it's efficiency, low-cost, and other benefits.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If you have any information that =
might be=20
    useful to him in his school report, please forward it to =
us.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We appreciate any help you can =
give=20
    us.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Nancy=20
Weatherly</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF8F5.68E8B8C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:40 -0700
Reply-To:     oregon@domes.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@DOMES.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome
Subject:      Re: school project
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nancy,

Please visit our website, http://www.domes.com, for some information
about domes.  If you visit the information order page, you will find
three brochures in downloadable form that address general dome
advantages, energy advantages, and advantages of domes in natural
disasters.  I can also mail you additional information or answer any
questions that your son might have.

Nancy Weatherly wrote:
>
> My son is in 7th grade.
>
> He is working on a report on Geodesic housing, it's efficiency,
> low-cost, and other benefits.
>
> If you have any information that might be useful to him in his school
> report, please forward it to us.
>
> We appreciate any help you can give us.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Nancy Weatherly

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:00:46 +0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         qiaoxh@PUBLIC.STI.AC.CN
Subject:      Expecting can by free to find some customers who are interested
              to directly purchase our a lot machine components.
Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
Comments: cc: nerdnosh@clovis.felton.ca.us
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Qiao Xiao Hong

China National Machine Components Co. (CMCC)
No.4 Erligou Zhong Street, Haidian District,
Beijing 100044, P.R.China

Fax: 0086-10-6775-2019
Tel: 0086-10-6773-5821
E-mail: qiaoxh@public.sti.ac.cn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                       Date: October 17, 1998
Dear Sirs,

  I am China National Machine Components Corp. (CMCC), in Beijing, China.

  First of all, I'd like to tell you that at present my main job is to export
many mechanical elements to America, European countries, Japan, etc. I have
been working in such export work for ten years. My basic case is as follows:

  QIAO XIAO HONG
  Engineer, MME, Director of CMCC' ITD
  Fax No.: 0086--10--6775--2019
  Tel No.: 0086--10--6773--5821
  E--mail: qiaoxh@public.sti.ac.cn
  Address: No. 4 Erligou Zhong Street, Haidian District,
           Beijing 100044, P.R.China
  Note: 1. MME is Master of Mechanical Engineering.
        2. ITD is the International Trade Department.

  I am very happy to have an opportunity to pick acquaintance with you. Now,
I hope your Internet site can help me by free to find or seed some possible
customers who are interested in buying my a lot machine components. (Please
see the attachment -- product catalogue.) Thank you very much!

  Here, I cordial wish to establish a solid business connection with these
customers (not only the final users but also larger sizes' distributors) and
to develop it with them step by step as soon as possible. We can supply first
service, well product quality, competitive price, proper delivery time.

  I warmly welcome relative companies can co-operative with us. The business
chance is infinite. The cooperative prospect is vast. I eagerly hope that you
can give a vigorous respondence for my cooperative thoughts and suggestions.

  At last, excause me. All friends, I have a very important information to
tell you. If you are real interested to my cooperative thought and my product
catalogue, for more better proceed to business connexion and co-operation
between two sides, please you directly fax or send e-mail to me from now on.
Because I am very busy everyday for our export work, so I haven't enough time
indeed to discuss and consult with you in those world famous Usenet site BBS
(newsgroup) or Gopher, FTP, etc. Thank you very much!



  Attachment:

                    ==================================
                    |  Machinery Products Catalogue  |
                    ==================================
 1. Belt pulley
   (Such as taper pulley: SPZ, SPA, SPB, SPC, and pulley type: solid, plate,
    arm.)
    Synchronous belt wheel
   (Type: S, F, W.  Pitch No.: MXL, XL, L, H, XXH, T2.5/AT2.5, T10/AT10,
    HTD--3M or STPD/STS--S5M, HTD--8M or STPD/STS--S8M, HTD--14M or
    STPD/STS--S14M, HTD--20, etc.)
 2. Spring
    (Such as: automobile suspension spring, valve spring for car and
     motorcycle series, large hot forming spring, motorcycle shakeproof
     spring, brake spring and couple spring series, rectangular model spring
     series, etc. )
 3. Chain
    (Various special industrial & agricultural chains, standard chains),
    Huge and small sprocket, chain shaft coupling
    (The size is bigger, the plant is more welcome.)
 4. Gear, gear coupling
    (Like some large quantity & many sizes gears that to be used extensively
    in various mechnical transmission. Besides, the materials of them are not
    only in common gear steel but also in sinterized metal-powder metallurgy
    that is accompanied with outer nylon sleeve.)
 5. Axle, sprindle, shaft-hub connector, shrink disc, crank, crank shaft
 6. Throttle, valve, sleeve
 7. Tappet (can be largely used in motor vehicle engine, etc.)
 8. Cylinder, cam, cam shaft, rod, pull rod, connecting rod
 9. Piston, piston rod, piston ring
10. Magnetic products & magnetic equipment (like to be used in washer, etc.)
11. Hydraulics (like electro-magnetic valve), pneumatic electromagnetic valve
12. Supporter, (such as hydraulic) joint, axle bush, locking device, coupling
13. Toggle, catch, liner, clutch element
14. Internal-combustion engine components and parts
15. Taper, cone clamping element
16. Castings, forgings
17. Zinc castings & other nonferrous metal castings
    (Especially in a lot of precision small & miniature zinc die castings.)
18. Some other automobile fittings
19. Plate spares, punchings, punching panel
20. Other various shape machinery spare parts.
21. Belt: triangle belt (or V--belt), NV--belt, automobile belt, ribbed belt,
    variable--speed belt, synchronous belt, double cogged timing belt,
    synchronous fan belt, flat belt, conveying belt.

  I'm sure in our above 21 items you maybe interested in buyiny some ones.The
more of your needed qty, it will be more welcome by us & our manufacturers.
With the possible co-operation time is going, you will find that we are one
very cordial friend and customer. We can supply first service, well product
quality and low price as well as proper delivery time.

  Looking forward to your early reply.

  Best regards.

                                                Yours sincerely,

                                                          Qiao Xiao Hong
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:23:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: Sneak preview (web pages)
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.19981017103833.00746e90@pop.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby,

They work just fine in Microsoft's latest browser.  VERY nice!


Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com
> [mailto:owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Kirby Urner
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 1998 10:39 AM
> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
> Subject: Syn-l: Sneak preview (web pages)
>
>
>
>
> I've been playing with JavaScript and have come up with
> two 'Exhibits' exploiting its powers.  These are about
> the Synergetics concentric hierarchy.
>
> They work well in Netscape 4.0 but I'm not using MIE 4.0
> and so cannot test them -- they don't work in MIE 3.02.
>
> Can one of you Explorer 4.0 folks check for me?  Simply
> mousing over the orange ball controls should cause the
> displayed graphics to change.
>
> I've used 'if document.images { }' in the to hide the
> script from older JavaScript-enabled browsers, so at least
> the pages shouldn't crash -- please let me know if they do.
>
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/exhibit1.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/exhibit2.html

Kirby
4D Solutions
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:00:51 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         mike regan <make-r@WEBTV.NET>
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions
Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

    1/3  TRUNCATED ICOSA
When you cut off the corners (vertexes) of an icosahedron, the result is
the hexagon-pentagpn "soccerball" shape, which can also be considered as
a 3-frequency alternate with some of its vertexes flattened into hex or
pent planes.
   Every third fequency alternate can be divided into hexagons, as can
every triacon breakdown. (useful for finding buckyballs).
   If you build a geodesic with , say, electrical conduit with its ends
flattened and drilled, you don't need to know the radial angles or the
dihedral angles,or the face angles. All you need are the strut lengths.
       For a twenty- foot;
    length A (to pent "centers')          3'  5 13/16"
    length B (around pents and hexs) 4'   7/16"
    length C (to hex 'centers" )            4'   1 1/2"

  If you jst want to builda hex-pent, truncated icosa with planar faces,
the dihedral angles between them are:
    Between hexes (same as between icosa triangles)            138.1896
degrees
    Between hex and pent:  142.4626.
The angle between radius to the pent face
and the radius to the  hex face
equals that in the icosa between the radius to vertex
and the radius to triangle center.       37.537369
  The dihedral angle therefore is  180- the above, or 142.4626.
   PS  to really teach the boy scouts something pivotal,I would
reccomend building a big tetrahedron, and dividing off the smaller
tetras at the corners, leaving the octa in the center. Calculate the
volumes: Big tetra is 8 small tet volumes, so octa equals a 4-tet.
   Have a session using small marshmellows for hubs, and toothpicks for
struts. See how unstable the cube is, and how the tet and oct together
can build indefinately.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:15:06 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)

PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN

OFFICIAL DWELLING OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM and
OFFICIAL DWELLINGS OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM are the
trademark/servicemarks of ThirdMillennium.org, DwellingMachines.com,
and the Dwelling Machine Design and Trade Show(TM).
OFFICIAL CITY OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM
is the trademark/servicemark of ThirdMillennium.org,
SpaceshipEarth.com and Spaceship Earth Science City(TM).

All comments and inquiries regarding
this legal notice should be sent to:

SpaceshipEarth.com
P.O. Box 1159
Waco, Texas 76703
U.S.A.

Or send email to: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com

=============================================
The R. Buckminster Fuller
Spaceship Earth Science CityTM
Official City of the Third MillenniumTM
Strategically Located in Central Texas
A Launch Site for the Spaceship Earth Race
An International Cooperative Effort to Achieve
Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
Within the First Decade of The Twenty-First Century
==============================================
The Official Dwelling of the Third MillenniumTM
Dwelling Machines for Humanity
The First Annual
Dwelling Machine Design and Trade ShowTM
(July 12 - 20, 2001)
In conjunction with the First Annual
Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM
==============================================
Portal To the Third MillenniumTM
Spaceship Earth Science CityTM
The Official Website of the Third MillenniumTM
www.SpaceshipEarth.com
==============================================
SPACESHIP EARTH SCIENCE CITY is the
trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com.
DWELLING MACHINE DESIGN AND TRADE SHOW is the
trademark/servicemark of DwellingMachines.com.
OFFICIAL EVENT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the
trademark/servicemark of ThirdMillennium.org and the Annual
Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity.
PORTAL TO THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the
trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com.
OFFICIAL WEB SITE OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the
trademark/servicemark of SpaceshipEarth.com and
ThirdMillennium.org.
===============================================
For the Benefit of All Humanity

Copyright 1998
SpaceshipEarth.com
All rights reserved
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:35:03 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
In-Reply-To:  <3629CDB9.6DD05AC1@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:15:06 -0500, you wrote:

>Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
>
>PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN
>
>OFFICIAL DWELLING OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM and
>OFFICIAL DWELLINGS OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM are the
>trademark/servicemarks of ThirdMillennium.org, DwellingMachines.com,
>and the Dwelling Machine Design and Trade Show(TM).
>OFFICIAL CITY OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM
>is the trademark/servicemark of ThirdMillennium.org,
>SpaceshipEarth.com and Spaceship Earth Science City(TM).
>

This seems a kind of legalistic 20th century kinda language,
going out of style in the 21st.  Our rule-based operating
systems are by engineers more than lawyers these days --
just as precise (a lot of it automated -- like those
"boilerplates" inherited from East India Co., Ltd.).

More like this...

====

To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Subject: Delivery reports about your email
From: The Post Office <postmaster@outbound.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400

This is a collection of reports about email delivery
process concerning a message you originated:

<smtp SpaceshipEarth.com mail@SpaceshipEarth.com 60001>: ...\
        <<- HELO outbound.Princeton.EDU
        ->> 550 Trial license expired


Original-Recipient: rfc822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Final-Recipient: RFC822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Action: -
Status: 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ( Trial license expired)
Remote-MTA: dns; mail.spaceshipearth.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:47:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Panel Dimensions

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      18-OCT-1998 12:47
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that was very good -- thank you,
 for not "giving the whole game away" to impressionable Scouts!

 thus quoth:
    If you jst want to builda hex-pent, truncated icosa with planar faces,
  the dihedral angles between them are:
      Between hexes (same as between icosa triangles)            138.1896
  degrees
      Between hex and pent:  142.4626.
  The angle between radius to the pent face
  and the radius to the  hex face
  equals that in the icosa between the radius to vertex
  and the radius to triangle center.       37.537369
    The dihedral angle therefore is  180- the above, or 142.4626.

 well, I take it back, partly;
 you gave digitial approximations to the agnles,
 which wasn't really necessary.
    as for the relative structural qualities
 of tetrahedra versus hexahedra etc.,
 you are assuming that the struts are your primary structural element
 (what is known as your "undefined" in Euclidean geometry),
 just a-like Bucky!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:56:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      18-OCT-1998 12:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Bucky may have chosen the Year of Our Lord'78, in part,
 to avoid associating with "British Isrealite" millenial fervor,
 commonly referred to also as the Odometer Problem.  so long
 as we are enthralling the fans of numerology & Armageddon,
 however spuriously either relate to the base of ten dating,
 it may not be such a cool idea.  I mean,
 take Ken Porno Starr Gate -- please!

 --The End of History; not again?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:01:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Distance Calculation

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      18-OCT-1998 13:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 good, guess, I think, but you'd have to use (90-x),
 where x is the lattitude in degrees.

 thus quoth:
  Isn't this just the SIN of the latitude times the total kilometers at the
  equator?
  sin(degrees LAT)x(kilometers at the equator)=Klicks at that degree of LAT

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Oct 1998 02:47:33 AM
Reply-To:     glyda@hotmail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         glyda@HOTMAIL.COM
Organization: GLYDA
Subject:      Hello from Glyda

This is a demo version of Dynamic Mail Server -
the leading Internet marketing promotion tool -
More details at: http://www.dynamicmail.com/
-----------------------------------------------------
*******************************************************************************

Hello,
My name is Tramper Price, I'm writing on behalf of the band that I'm in, GLYDA.
We are an unsigned, English band. We have a website with 5 language translation,
 audio file's, great photo's, and a nice musical screensaver that you can downlo
ad.


We would love it if you checked out the site. It would be greatly appreciated if
 you could put a link to our site on your list of links. The address of the site
 is: http://www.glyda.com

We hope this letter is not an inconvenience, we are non profit at the moment, an
d just want you to have a look.

Thank's for your consideration.
Tramper Price/Glyda

glyda@hotmail.com

p.s. if you have the space, we have a small banner that you could paste on your
page. Here is the code:


<center><a href="http://www.glyda.com"><img src="http://www.glyda.com/banner.gif
"target="TOP"></a></center>

Thanks again. I hope you'll check out the site, and listen to some of our real a
udio!

Bye for now....

GLYDA

This is a demo version of Dynamic Mail Server -
the leading Internet marketing promotion tool -
More details at: http://www.dynamicmail.com/
-----------------------------------------------------
*******************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:28:09 -0500
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@TexNet.Net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <SpaceshipEarth@TEXNET.NET>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby:

Yea, it's all a bunch of legalistic mush, but I know what I'm doing. Don't
think that I don't. I know trademark law, and I know how important these
symbols are to the public. GRUNCH and LAWCAP are working overtime to take
advantage of these millennial symbols. There are forces everywhere that if
given the chance will corrupt these symbols to no end. We all knew it was
going to be a Buckminster Fuller millennium. Now it's official. Take advantage
of the ground that's been gained.

It's time to unleash the Millennial Design Science Revolution and beat the
Horsemen of the Apocalypse to the Millennial Pass. With what's at stake (think
starving children) I'll take every advantage I can get.

Sincerely,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com

Kirby Urner wrote:
>
> This seems a kind of legalistic 20th century kinda language,
> going out of style in the 21st.  Our rule-based operating
> systems are by engineers more than lawyers these days --
> just as precise (a lot of it automated -- like those
> "boilerplates" inherited from East India Co., Ltd.).
>
> More like this...
>
> ====
>
> To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
> Subject: Delivery reports about your email
> From: The Post Office <postmaster@outbound.Princeton.EDU>
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400
>
> This is a collection of reports about email delivery
> process concerning a message you originated:
>
> <smtp SpaceshipEarth.com mail@SpaceshipEarth.com 60001>: ...\
>         <<- HELO outbound.Princeton.EDU
>         ->> 550 Trial license expired
>
> Original-Recipient: rfc822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
> Final-Recipient: RFC822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
> Action: -
> Status: 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox)
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ( Trial license expired)
> Remote-MTA: dns; mail.spaceshipearth.com
> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:59:02 -0500
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@TexNet.Net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <SpaceshipEarth@TEXNET.NET>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby:

I don't like all this legalistic mumbo-jumbo either, but it's all necessary.
As you well know, GRUNCH and LAWCAP don't care about starving children.
They'll bite the hand that feeds them. These are very valuable symbols to
GRUNCH, and GRUNCH is not going to be very happy to find that they didn't have
the vision and the foresight to take possession of them, especially since
they're so valuable and free, just the way the robber barons like things. You
have to take a legal stand with them because they push their weight around and
just take whatever they want, even if it's food from babies mouths. Especially
if it's food from babies mouths, because that gives them a great sense of
satisfaction and power to take advantage of the weak. I may be weak, but I'm
weak because I'm hungry, and I'm tired of being taken advantage of and having
food taken out of my mouth. A desperate animal is dangerous. When you get
hungry, you get desperate. When you get desperate you get mad. When you get
mad you get mean. When you get mean you get aggressive. I'm mean, I'm
aggressive, and I'm hungry. Hungry to unleash the power humanity has to
achieve complete physical success for all humanity. I'm prowling and
protecting that territory from predators.

Only a complete failure could be compelled enough to find a compelling vision
for the achievement of complete success for all humanity. Everyone else is too
complacent in their position to be moved to such vision. You have to be
starving for it, desperate for it, willing to spend three millennia in hell
for it.

Knowing that the turn of the millennium is the biggest media event in history
and that everybody and his dog is clamoring to take advantage of it, and
having read many articles saying that there was a mad rush to register every
internet domain name you can think of, I was greatly surprised (shocked) that
I was able to register and take position of the domain name
ThirdMillennium.org. So how much is a domain name name and a trademark worth?
Ha! That such a stupid question, isn't it? Symbols are so powerful. They move
the world. They don't just move it, they put it in a spin cycle. If it has to
do with the internet, it has even more value and appeal. The internet is one
of the most powerful symbols to ever come along. Tie it to the millennium and
make it official and you can lead the public anywhere you want. There's a beer
company out there that wants to make a beer bust the official event of the
third millennium. I want to make the achievement of complete physical success
for all humanity, the official event of the third millennium. We can do it,
but we have to take advantage of every opportunity we can get. And we're not
going to force it into place with hard technology. We're going to have to move
the world into a spin cycle with the power of metaphysical symbols. And I'm
not going to let anybody think that I'm going to let them dilute the value of
those symbols by using them for any other purpose. It's a good thing that I
haven't lived such a sheltered life, because if I let my selfless, trusting
idealism handle this thing, that's exactly what would happen. I would end up
with nothing. Are you with me? Perhaps the following article will throw more
light on the subject. I have taken further steps to protect these trademarks.
First use takes precedence over registration.

Remind me when I have more time and I'll tell you what I think Buckminster
Fuller thought about the millennium.

        YEAR 2000 TRADEMARKS
        As January 1, 2000 approaches,
        individuals and businesses across America
        are intensely interested in using brand
        names, slogans, and other trademarks
        incorporating the number "2000", the
        word "MILLENNIUM", and the terms "21st
        Century" and "Y2K". Thousands have filed
        applications with the U.S. Patent and
        Trademark Office seeking registration of
        such marks. The Office currently has more
        than 2,500 pending applications and
        registrations for marks containing the
        number "2000", and more than 1,000
        applications and registrations for marks
        containing various forms of the word
        "MILLENNIUM".
        Everything 2000 now includes an
        exhaustive list of trademarks containing
        the word "MILLENNIUM".
http://www.everything2000.com/even/biz.html

Business and products claiming to be "OFFICIAL"
http://www.everything2000.com/even/biz.html#p2

Spaceship Earth wrote:
>
> Kirby:
>
> Yea, it's all a bunch of legalistic mush, but I know what I'm doing. Don't
> think that I don't. I know trademark law, and I know how important these
> symbols are to the public. GRUNCH and LAWCAP are working overtime to take
> advantage of these millennial symbols. There are forces everywhere that if
> given the chance will corrupt these symbols to no end. We all knew it was
> going to be a Buckminster Fuller millennium. Now it's official. Take advantage
> of the ground that's been gained.
>
> It's time to unleash the Millennial Design Science Revolution and beat the
> Horsemen of the Apocalypse to the Millennial Pass. With what's at stake (think
> starving children) I'll take every advantage I can get.
>
> Sincerely,
> Spaceship Earth
> mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
>
> Kirby Urner wrote:
> >
> > This seems a kind of legalistic 20th century kinda language,
> > going out of style in the 21st.  Our rule-based operating
> > systems are by engineers more than lawyers these days --
> > just as precise (a lot of it automated -- like those
> > "boilerplates" inherited from East India Co., Ltd.).
> >
> > More like this...
> >
> > ====
> >
> > To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
> > Subject: Delivery reports about your email
> > From: The Post Office <postmaster@outbound.Princeton.EDU>
> > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400
> >
> > This is a collection of reports about email delivery
> > process concerning a message you originated:
> >
> > <smtp SpaceshipEarth.com mail@SpaceshipEarth.com 60001>: ...\
> >         <<- HELO outbound.Princeton.EDU
> >         ->> 550 Trial license expired
> >
> > Original-Recipient: rfc822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
> > Final-Recipient: RFC822;mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
> > Action: -
> > Status: 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox)
> > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ( Trial license expired)
> > Remote-MTA: dns; mail.spaceshipearth.com
> > Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:50:55 -0400
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:02:06 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
In-Reply-To:  <362B8BF5.BDBBEAEA@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:59:02 -0500, you wrote:

>Kirby:
>
>I don't like all this legalistic mumbo-jumbo either, but it's all necessary.

Whatever.  Looks like it might be a waste though.  For one thing,
GRUNCH (<> LAWCAP) is not 100% committed to the western calendar.

This millenium thing is big with the Romans and their Y2K-apocalyptic
descendents, clearly, but some billion-plus don't really care about
the odometer flip.

Personally, I'm not planning to indulge in major doses of the inevitable
"millenium fever" myself, though certainly this marks a time for serious
reflection and taking stock.  Best to stay sober.

Buying up a lot of hysterical trademarks isn't necessarily the most
effective way to advance the design science agenda.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:27:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TENSEGRITY ARTICLES
Comments: To: kbrown@tnc.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng.
Box 3973
Leduc, Alberta, CANADA T9E6M8

Dear Mr. Brown,

Thank you for recently posting a list of Tensegrity articles to the Geodesic
newsletter (list).  I will be adding them to my Bucky Bibliography when I
next update my website.

Sincerely,

Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:15:03 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby:

I said that I would tell you what Buckminster Fuller thought about the
millennium, and after I respond to some of your statements, I will try to
touch on that. I don't want you to miss out on what Buckminster Fuller clearly
saw was the greatest opportunity humanity would ever have to advance the
design science agenda.

First let me say that I'm not buying anything. Registering a trademark is a
long, drawn out, expensive process, beyond my means. I have a good
understanding of what it takes to own and protect a trademark. You don't have
to register a
trademark to own one, and first use takes precedence over registration.

> GRUNCH (<> LAWCAP) is not 100% committed to the western calendar.

They're committed to taking advantage of any symbols or whatever they can use
to make money.
>
> some billion-plus don't really care about
> the odometer flip.

The whole world is caught up in this millennium thing. Technically, many don't
recognizes the millennium in their traditional culture, but they're just as
caught up in the millennium as they are other aspects of western culture.

> Personally, I'm not planning to indulge in major doses of the inevitable
> "millenium fever" myself, though certainly this marks a time for serious
> reflection and taking stock.  Best to stay sober.

I'm quite a contraryian myself. No millennium fever here either. I'm sober and
will remain that way. But you and everyone else are marking this time for
taking stock and reflecting on the past, which is traditional when marking the
end of a decade, more so with a century, and now a millennium. That's the
purpose for creating a "portal into history that will guide us in meeting the
challenges and opportunities of the 21st century" -- The First Annual
Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity.

> Buying up a lot of hysterical trademarks isn't necessarily the most
> effective way to advance the design science agenda.

You're missing the boat Kirby! And it won't return to port for another
thousand years. Buckminster Fuller was way ahead of you. Fuller
recognized a long time ago that the millennium was the best opportunity
humanity would ever have to advance the design science agenda and he was
planting those memes most of his life. He was a long range planner who plotted
the course of history to see where humanity was headed and planted memes fifty
years or more in advance to guide humanity. He knew about centennial and
millennial fever and plotted to capitalize upon it. Buckminster Fuller was
born in 1895. He was at a most impressionable age at the turn of the century
when everyone was celebrating the beginning of the last century of this
millennium, reflecting on the past and taking stock of the future, and the
coming new millennium. The coming new millennium was a big thing bringing big
expectations. There was the same kind of millennium fever then as there is
today, some claiming the end of the world is coming, and others saying that
humanity is heading for a glorious golden age. Fuller had just received eye
glasses and was visually seeing the world for the first time. All of his
senses were at an all time high, and his brain/mind was at that young,
hardwiring stage. Fuller developed a strong conscious and subconscious sense
of what the prevailing social attitudes and conditions would be like at the
end of the millennium. He knew that at the end of the millennium humanity
would be psychologically charged for something big, and that we would have the
technological means, for better or worse, to fulfill that expectation. I think
that around the late 1920s, Buckminster Fuller started planting the following
meme which is expressed in this passage from Critical Path.

'All the.. class-one evolutionary trending provides
powerful long-distance prognostication data. Keeping
track of the integrated ephemeralization and
acceleration trends and their socioeconomic resultants,
per each world human, made possible my 1938 Nine
Chains to the Moon and my 1950 magazine-published
prognostication that by 2000 A.D. all humanity either
would be enjoying a higher but generally unfamiliar
standard of living than any humans had ever known --
or would have altogether perished.' -- Buckminster
Fuller. Critical Path

And this millennial meme:

'Based on my logistical engineering experience ... I see
that it is now highly feasible to institute a millennial
ten-year design revolution that could take care of all
humanity at a much higher standard of living than
anybody has ever known and could do so on a
sustainable basis. During those ten years, we could
also phase out forever all future use of fossil fuels and
atomic energy. We can live entirely on our energy
income from the sun.' - Buckminster Fuller

The turn of the millennium is the greatest opportunity we will ever have to
advance the design science agenda. Miss out on it and you will never have
another opportunity like it again. People are wired for something big for the
millennium and it's not there to be had. Let's not disappoint the crowd. Let's
give them what the want. Support the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical
Success for All Humanity. Do it now!

I'm trying to plant all the symbols I can to get the publics attention. The
public and the media go for these symbols. They draw a 1000 times larger crowd
with this stuff.  It's always empty fluff but they don't care. They still go
for it. Image is everything. And you want to shrug it off? If they don't go
for it here, they'll fall for an official beer. Take your choice. I wouldn't
shrug it off so fast. I'd take advantage of every available opportunity. I
don't want to waste too much time defending this stuff. There are too many
more symbols to create, but I'm making it official; The achievement of
complete physical success for all humanity is the Official Event of the Third
MillenniumTM.

Sincerely,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:33:31 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      The Third Millennium: A Race Between Utopia and Oblivion?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Third Millennium:
      A Race Between Utopia and Oblivion?

Advances in science and technology achieved in the
last century of the second millennium gives humanity
the ability to achieve a New Renaissance in the first
decade of the Third Millennium surpassing all human
progress combined throughout 10,000 years of human
development. Based on a lifetime of studies in
evolutionary and socioeconomic trends, Buckminster
Fuller believed that humanity must use it's potential to
stabilize the human condition and achieve life-support
abundance for all humanity by the end of the 21st
century, or human affairs will spin hopelessly out of
control, resulting in the collapse of civilization and the
extinction of the human species. Buckminster Fuller
believed that a deep crisis would cause humans to
mobilize our resources to pull humanity out of crisis,
and that this effort would catapult us forward into a
bold new future benefiting all humankind. He believed
that humanity is in a race between utopia and oblivion.
This general belief has become widely reflected in
popular culture as a timid and insecure civilization faces
a new era of untold challenges, unlimited opportunities,
and sweeping changes on the brink of a new millennium.

'All the.. class-one evolutionary trending provides
powerful long-distance prognostication data. Keeping
track of the integrated ephemeralization and
acceleration trends and their socioeconomic resultants,
per each world human, made possible my 1938 Nine
Chains to the Moon and my 1950 magazine-published
prognostication that by 2000 A.D. all humanity either
would be enjoying a higher but generally unfamiliar
standard of living than any humans had ever known --
or would have altogether perished.' -- Buckminster
Fuller. Critical Path

'...evolutionary events.. have, during the last
half-century, gone critical -- bringing humanity to a
moment of crisis adequate in magnitude to
springboard humanity into oblivion or into a relatively
utopian future.' -- Buckminster Fuller. Critical Path.

'Never before has man had such capacity to control his
own environment, to end thirst and hunger, to conquer
poverty and disease, to banish illiteracy and massive
human misery. We have the power to make this the
best generation of mankind in the history of the world
- or to make it the last. -- John F. Kennedy
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:48:48 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         zgzgdy@GTE.NET
Organization: @Home Network
Subject:      This is NICE!! [147/2]

begin 644 umatr.jpg

end
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:16:05 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
In-Reply-To:  <362C62A6.2E6C8062@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Thanks for sharing more of your rationale.

I'm not trying to micromanage what each individual takes on
as we put the finishing touches on the design science decade
(1985-1995) and bring the results into more public view.
You'll do what you do, obviously.

Sounds like our plans coincide to some degree.  Personally,
I don't see the need to play this game by all of LAWCAP's
rules at this point (now that GRUNCH has heisted all the
cash).

Kirby

PS:  is it your intention to hide behind anonymous monikers
throughout these upcoming festivities?  Sounds properly
New Year-esque if so.  Please pass the champaign.

PPS: note that the third millenium technically starts in
the year 2001, with 2000 being the last year of the 2nd.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:40:46 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Lawrence E. Couey" <LECouey@INET-1.COM>
Organization: CATT/FX Informationing
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A77825D859E9253F0C692F1A"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A77825D859E9253F0C692F1A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby,

I'm glad you pointed out that the "Real" 21st Century actually starts,
not on January 1st 2000, but January 1st 2001!

 >>note that the third millenium technically starts in
 >>the year 2001, with 2000 being the last year of the 2nd.

Lawrence C.

Kirby Urner wrote:
>
...
>
> PPS: note that the third millenium technically starts in
> the year 2001, with 2000 being the last year of the 2nd.

--

---------------------------------------------
Lawrence E. Couey
 - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/
     FX Informationing
 - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com
---------------------------------------------
--------------A77825D859E9253F0C692F1A
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
 name="LECouey.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="LECouey.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Couey;Lawrence E.
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:CATT/FX Informationing
version:2.1
email;internet:LECouey@inet-1.com
title:Senior R&D Software Engineer
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
tel;work:801.489.8773
fn:Lawrence E. Couey
end:vcard

--------------A77825D859E9253F0C692F1A--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:45:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      20-OCT-1998 13:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 thank, God, we've got over *two* years to launch this fervor;
 maybe, by the time we've wiped-up the Y2000 programming bug,
 we'll be *really* ready to party like it's'99 (so to say .-)

 please note: GRUNCH = GOOD; LAWCAP = BAD; Good <> BAD; thus
 (quoth):
  GRUNCH (<> LAWCAP) is not 100% committed to the western calendar.

 yeah; we're not a hundred hundredths committed, in *any* base.
    as for Bucky's assertion about "fossilized" fuels,
 this is not an uncommon mystaque; even John Hamaker,
 at the top of his field, as an engineer, in the oil industry,
 abused this misbegotten (by Mobil Co.etc.AKA "Obnoxico") metaphor,
 in spite of the perspecuity of his conceptual model of Earth.
    as for his fear of atomic power,
 there is way-too-much fervor on Earth, in that regard, and
 he went along with it!

 thus quoth:
  also phase out forever all future use of fossil fuels and
  atomic energy. We can live entirely on our energy

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:51:12 -0400
Reply-To:     nanvanb@voyager.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Nancy J. Van Blaricum" <nanvanb@VOYAGER.NET>
Organization: Navan
Subject:      Unsubcribe!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Please help me unsubcribe from this list!  Thank you!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:04:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

To Spaceship Earth --

You're handling this very well.  When you have good intentions, there will
always be some who will belittle those any way they can, sometimes in
complex and sophisticated ways.  Your intention to spread the word about
design science seems valid to me, and i will do what i can to assist you, as
appropriate.  I have noticed that some of the worst enemies of practical
design science are actually working in the field, so you can safely ignore
any flak emanating from them.

I would much rather see people like you taking advantage of millenial fever,
instead of the jerks who are trying to spread fear and panic in our society.
Good art of any kind needs to be spread far and wide, to counteract stuff
that brings people down.  And from what you're saying, that seems to be
exactly what you're doing.  "Good art can overcome almost anything".
(That's an ancient proverb i made up)

At 05:15 AM 10/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Kirby:
>
>I said that I would tell you what Buckminster Fuller thought about the
>millennium, and after I respond to some of your statements, I will try to
>touch on that. I don't want you to miss out on what Buckminster Fuller clearly
>saw was the greatest opportunity humanity would ever have to advance the
>design science agenda.
>
>First let me say that I'm not buying anything. Registering a trademark is a
>long, drawn out, expensive process, beyond my means. I have a good
>understanding of what it takes to own and protect a trademark. You don't have
>to register a
>trademark to own one, and first use takes precedence over registration.
>
<snip>
>
> Fuller
>recognized a long time ago that the millennium was the best opportunity
>humanity would ever have to advance the design science agenda and he was
>planting those memes most of his life. He was a long range planner who plotted
>the course of history to see where humanity was headed and planted memes fifty
>years or more in advance to guide humanity. He knew about centennial and
>millennial fever and plotted to capitalize upon it. Buckminster Fuller was
>born in 1895. He was at a most impressionable age at the turn of the century
>when everyone was celebrating the beginning of the last century of this
>millennium, reflecting on the past and taking stock of the future, and the
>coming new millennium. The coming new millennium was a big thing bringing big
>expectations. There was the same kind of millennium fever then as there is
>today, some claiming the end of the world is coming, and others saying that
>humanity is heading for a glorious golden age. Fuller had just received eye
>glasses and was visually seeing the world for the first time. All of his
>senses were at an all time high, and his brain/mind was at that young,
>hardwiring stage. Fuller developed a strong conscious and subconscious sense
>of what the prevailing social attitudes and conditions would be like at the
>end of the millennium. He knew that at the end of the millennium humanity
>would be psychologically charged for something big, and that we would have the
>technological means, for better or worse, to fulfill that expectation. I think
>that around the late 1920s, Buckminster Fuller started planting the following
>meme which is expressed in this passage from Critical Path.
>
<snip>
>
>The turn of the millennium is the greatest opportunity we will ever have to
>advance the design science agenda. Miss out on it and you will never have
>another opportunity like it again. People are wired for something big for the
>millennium and it's not there to be had. Let's not disappoint the crowd. Let's
>give them what the want. Support the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical
>Success for All Humanity. Do it now!
>
>I'm trying to plant all the symbols I can to get the publics attention. The
>public and the media go for these symbols. They draw a 1000 times larger crowd
>with this stuff.  It's always empty fluff but they don't care. They still go
>for it. Image is everything. And you want to shrug it off? If they don't go
>for it here, they'll fall for an official beer. Take your choice. I wouldn't
>shrug it off so fast. I'd take advantage of every available opportunity. I
>don't want to waste too much time defending this stuff. There are too many
>more symbols to create, but I'm making it official; The achievement of
>complete physical success for all humanity is the Official Event of the Third
>MillenniumTM.
>
>Sincerely,
>Spaceship Earth
>mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
>
-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist
Author of <Design Ecology: Creating Healthy Living Environments>
MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:02:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: This is NICE!! [147/2]
In-Reply-To:  <Q7YW1.3512$5J6.3263085@news.rdc1.fl.home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit

Dear Zgzgdy,

Your jpg pic attachment doesn't seem to work (it is blank).  You might try
pasting it into your email rather than attaching it.

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of zgzgdy@GTE.NET
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 1:49 AM
> To:   GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject:      This is NICE!! [147/2]
>
>  << File: umatr.jpg >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:08:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ETHANOL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Univ. Florida Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol
Plant."  "The new technology will allow ethanol to become economically
competitive with fossil fuels for the first time."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981020074004.htm

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name=" UF Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol Plant.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename=" UF Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol Plant.url"

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981020074004.htm
Modified=C0E5F1A98EFCBD0187

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:09:17 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
In-Reply-To:  <199810210004.RAA13227@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:04:27 -0700, you wrote:

>I would much rather see people like you taking advantage of millenial fever,
>instead of the jerks who are trying to spread fear and panic in our society.

Like a lot of those guests on the Art Bell show (AM radio). Too much
mindless apocalyptic fervor.  If not the Book of Revelations, then
Y2K -- always some impending "cliff-hanger".  I guess you need such
for suspense value, otherwise we all go to sleep, is that it?  Not
enough to keep our minds focused that a raging "holocaust of neglect"
proceeds apace, as that's just "background noise" according to all
the dumbing-down Malthusian reflex-conditioning that is our heritage
(fight it, or turn away).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:50:15 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear GEODESIC:

In response to recent postings:

> PS:  is it your intention to hide behind anonymous monikers
> throughout these upcoming festivities?  Sounds properly
> New Year-esque if so.  Please pass the champaign.

You know me, at least a little bit. I believe Buckminster Fuller felt that it
was beneficial to cultivate a personality to promote his agenda, and the
Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity is dedicated to
him. But at this stage in the game, personalities are unnecessary and
unbenefitting to the cause. I see nameless, faceless, selfless individuals,
heroes every one, dedicated to the cause of the betterment of humanity. This
cause will be won by a legion of nameless heroes that do not require
recognition for their effort. I am confident that for this great cause, this
is the image that will be most inspiring to the public. We need to focus on
the cause and not get bogged down with personalities. Save the champaign for
the real celebration --
complete physical success for all humanity.
>
> PPS: note that the third millenium technically starts in
> the year 2001, with 2000 being the last year of the 2nd.

And the First Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
is July 12 - 20, 2001. This event will carry forward the energy generated by
the year 2000 and millennial celebrations into a vision and an effort to
achieve a world of peace without poverty, where all humans have the
opportunity to achieve their ultimate potential in life. If this event does
not move forward, millennial fever will be a short lived phenomenon that will
give out shortly after January 1, 2001. Support this global event now! And
carry that fervor onward to the achievement of complete success for all.

> Buying up a lot of hysterical trademarks isn't necessarily the most
> effective way to advance the design science agenda.

These symbols are very important to the public and the media (much more so if
you put some substance behind them), and I'm locking them up for the exclusive
use of promoting the design science agenda and the achievement of complete
success for all humanity.

> Personally, I'm not planning to indulge in major doses of the inevitable
> "millenium fever" myself, though certainly this marks a time for serious
> reflection and taking stock.  Best to stay sober.

I don't have millennial fever. I have complete success for all humanity fever.
We've got a millennial crowd assembled. The public and especially the media
are looking for something relevant and exciting, and they're not finding it.
We don't want to let the crowd go home disappointed. We need to capitalize
upon the situation. The only really interesting millennial news is the Y2K
bug. I've been reading about that for about five years, and I've lost interest
in it.

>please note: GRUNCH = GOOD; LAWCAP = BAD;

GRUNCH stands for Gross Universal Cash Heist. And since money isn't wealth,
who cares. Let them burden themselves with such worldly treasures.

>(now that GRUNCH has heisted all the cash).

GRUNCH has really put a clamp on the world's cash. In that respect they
dominate the world. But money isn't wealth, and humanity now has the ability
to achieve so much with so little money that even the impoverished and
destitute have the power to save the world. It's important to communicate to
everyone the power that is available to change the world. The only way to do
that is with lots of media. Fuller knew that too. And the only way to do that
is with the right image. The media doesn't care about substance. They only
care about image. And, as every good salesperson and marketer knows, the
public doesn't buy substance, they buy image. They do it over and over again,
no matter how often it crumbles in there hands. Human nature is a stupid
animal and we have to play into it's hands, just like GRUNCH and politics
does.

>I would much rather see people like you taking advantage of millenial fever,
>instead of the jerks who are trying to spread fear and panic in our society.

I didn't even realize I was trying to take advantage of millennial fever. But
now I realize it's true. I'm so embarrassed and ashamed. I thought I was
beyond those things. And you're right that I'm not trying to spread fear and
panic, just hope and concern.

>You're handling this very well.

>Your intention to spread the word about design science seems valid to me,
>and i will do what i can to assist you, as appropriate.

Thank you for your kind words. My first response was a little long winded and
hysterical, but that's how I feel.

>Thanks for sharing more of your rationale.

Thank you for challenging me to do so.

>thank, God, we've got over *two* years to launch this fervor;

'Every minute is counting now.' -- Buckminster Fuller

Support the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity:
The Official Event of the Third Millennium!

Sincerely,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:00:49 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Legal Notice of Trademark/Servicemark Ownership (#2)
Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <362D9236.3BFB5535@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Howdy SpaceShip --

Thanks for more details.  Probably your mixing queries
from several sources without attribution, and continuing
to respond anonymously, is all part of your grand strategy
to keep this at the level of nameless, faceless heroics.

I must admit I find your "image is everything" approach a
bit cynical, but also harmless enough, so I won't pester
you with many more queries. I hope you will keep this list
informed about your countdown activities, and keep us
apprised of which trade and service marks you've locked
up for your exclusive or permitted uses (barring any form
of piracy of course).

My own strategy these days is to work with teachers, a lot
of them community college level (via listserv) in efforts
to revamp the K-16 curriculum to include a lot more synergetics.
This was the substance of Bucky's philosophy, and for all
his huge audiences in the 60s and 70s, he gained precious
few students for his magnum opus, which subsequently went
out of print for lack of inclusion on required reading
syllabi.

This is one of the obstacles we have to overcome.  In some
domains (e.g. .mil) it's easy:  don't expect to rise through
the ranks if you don't even know what A and B modules are.
But in others, you have to be more persuasive on the PR front,
e.g. by using synergetics motifs in your commercial messages
and science fiction movies.  Kids start to realize, maybe
pre-verbally, that there's a new "meme set" in common currency
and it's to their survival advantage to gain fluency in these
memes -- nothing new (kids have always been heavy duty into
meme traffic, looking for cues as to what's cool and what's
bogus).

In this respect, I think our plans to use media are somewhat
similar, although here I'm using imagery to point to substance,
and would consider the campaign a failure if we don't get a
lot of new recruits up for doing the hard work of gaining
new forms of mastery in a challenging curriculum context.

If we're to roll forward with a more design science approach,
we'll need to greatly expand the ranks of people with a feel
for its philosophical underpinnings and this means getting
more synergetics included at all levels.  To this end, I've
started work on a pilot TV show called "The Videogrammatron",
about which you can find more information from my 4D Solutions
home page: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/

Plus, as I've said, I'm working with teachers on getting
alternative visions of "basic math" or "math 101" implemented,
so that the concentric hierarchy and ivm (at least) will be a
part of the working vocabulary of every 6th grader ASAP. I
have the necessary videotape, overhead transparencies, and
physical models to present this material clearly and effectively,
and am doing what I can to line up more opportunities to make
presentations (to local high schools, perhaps during my upcoming
trip to NYC, Philly and DC).

Here's a slightly improved outline of a math course I tossed
together for a community colleges listserv. This is more aimed at
giving a generic sense of where I'm coming from, opening up the
conversation, than it is meant to be used directly i.e. I would
expect a lot more brainstorming to go into the details (am
currently engaged in some of that myself, in collaboration with
others)...


            INTRODUCTION TO BASIC MATHEMATICS
             (Math 101 -- no prerequisites)

I.   Permuted symbols as finite "space" of identifiers
      (a) binary representation of charactersets
          (i)  ASCII
          (ii) Unicode
      (b) Itemizing, tracking (licenses, serial nos...)

II.  Business rules as "retrieval filters" using:
      (a) boolean logic (AND OR NOT)
      (b) SQL (standard query language)
        (i)    relational database models
        (ii)   set theory generalizations
      (c) sorting rules (alpha-based as well as numeric)
        (i)    set of integers as "sorted" number strings
        (ii)   floating point numbers
        (iii)  character sorts (not just Roman alphabet)

III. Math and Computer notations as:
      (a) convergent
        (i)    concept class hierarchies (inheritance)
        (ii)   object.method(), object.property notation
        (iii)  using operators for alpha-crunching, not just
               number crunching
      (b) context-dependent problem solving
        (i)    what is an algorithm?
        (ii)   what tools useful?
        (iii)  what degree of precision relevant?

IV.  Operating with Math Tools
      (a) calculator
        (i)   tour of all the keys and what they do
        (ii)  geometric concepts behind many of them
      (b) computer
        (i)   scripting, programming and markup languages
        (ii)  JavaScript, HTML, VRML, XBase (or other)
        (iii) Generic Math Applications (MathCad, Mathematica)
      (c) using calculator and computer to
        (i)   solve some real world problems
              (e.g. probabilities, conversions, triangles)
        (ii)  draw and rotate polyhedra (physical model & computer)

More curriculum stuff by this writer:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/

For a picture of some of the physical models in inventory, built mostly
by synergetics expert Rusell Chu, with some assistance from myself
(Kirby Urner) and Trevor Blake, see:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/synproj.html

Best!
Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:09:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      ETHANOL

MESSAGE from ="List 21-OCT-1998 11:36
 This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940
 Content-Type: text/plain;
         charset="iso-8859-1"
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 "Univ. Florida Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol
 Plant."  "The new technology will allow ethanol to become economically
 competitive with fossil fuels for the first time."

 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981020074004.htm

 Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
 Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
 http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940
 Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
         name=" UF Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol Plant.url"
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Content-Disposition: attachment;
         filename=" UF Biotech Breakthrough Drives World's First Biomass-To-Ethanol Plant.url"

 [InternetShortcut]
 URL=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981020074004.htm
 Modified=C0E5F1A98EFCBD0187

 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFC54.9CE8D940--
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      21-OCT-1998 12:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 internal Obnoxico (sm) memorandum to all department heads:

    today, we are promoting ethanol to compete with Fosssilized Fuels (tm),
 our other trademark for "biomass that has been converted
 into liquid form (at some *unspecified* time)".  it seems that
 Engineering came-up with the essential nugget of this strategy, and
 after a brief "not created, here" fight from Marketing
 -- and series of calls on the Hotline from Seagrams, Du Pont and ADM,
 "Supermarket t the the World" (tm) --
 they accepted it as their own, to tailor, and retired to the local pub.
    But not before launching a company-wide contest, to devise a new name
 for ethanol, hoepfully one that seeks to place it as far,
 in the marketplace, from alledgedly-fossilized goo, used for fuel,
 as is possible.  we await your entries!

 --We R the World (tm)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:55:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Viridian Mailing List
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

For those who need it spelled out...

I am not Bruce Sterling.  I did not write the following message. Do not
reply to me, reply to Bruce Sterling.  Read the following message to find
Bruce Sterling's address.  Reply to that address, not my address.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Return-Path: <dead-media@fringeware.com>
Delivered-To: box2321@teleport.com
Received: (qmail 23849 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1998 19:22:37 -0000
Received: from fringeware.com (207.170.80.10)
  by smtp3.teleport.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 1998 19:22:37 -0000
Received: from fringeware.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by fringeware.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23210;
        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:07:39 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:07:39 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199810211807.NAA23210@fringeware.com>
To: Dead Media List <dead-media@fringeware.com>
From: Bruce Sterling <bruces@well.com>
Reply-To: <bruces@well.com>
Errors-To: <bruces@well.com>
Subject:  Dead Media Announcement

From:  bruces@well.com (Bruce Sterling)

Bruce Sterling Establishes "Viridian List"

If you watch the news, you may have noticed that we Texans
have had a summer of unprecedent heat and drought,
followed by an autumn of unprecedented floods.    I have
therefore started a new, second mailing list, which will
center around 21st century Green design issues.  The new
"Viridian Mailing List" seeks a historical understanding
of technology, society, and their future trends, centering
around the Greenhouse Effect.  Unlike Dead Media, which
has been very calm and scholarly, this Viridian list will
probably be rather strident and opinionated.   If you
would like to join the Viridian List, send me email.    I
will send you the 6,633-word text of my recent San
Francisco lecture, in which I vent some of my strong
feelings on this subject.

Bruce Sterling (bruces@well.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:25:40 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Rewiring the basic math curriculum (continued...)
Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

You won't see Synergetics specifically mentioned in the curriculum
outline below, but you will see a lot of new thinking about what
students should be getting in a basic math class (some ideas borrowed
from the military sector, where similar reforms are in the works).
Given my name is on the product, and the URLs at the end point back
to my webspace, you can be sure that this is generating traffic
through my exhibits on the Concentric Hierarchy, Isotropic Vector
Matrix, A B and T modules, and the like (i.e. what every sixth grader
should know).

This is all part of our Great Math Makeover of 1998, now winding
to a close (planning phase in 1997 shared at my website).  We've
made a lot of advances and I'm very encouraged by the results.

Kirby

=============
=============

The following course-outline is something I've been
brainstorming mostly with community college math teachers.  Don
Hutchison and I discussed some of these ideas in person (he
chairs the Clackamas County CC) but I take full responsibility
for this picture of what a basic math course might look like in
the near future.

I'm sharing it on this K-12 math ed newsgroup because all the
same material could be taught anywhere from 9th to 12th grades.

Two principal curriculum reforms embedded in this outline are as
follows:

(a) since strict rule-based processing of symbols has been
extended beyond number crunching (even in an algebraic sense)
to 'alpha crunching' by the advent of modern computers, it is
now important to not confine the 'field of operations' to
number-based operators so strictly.  Concatenation of strings,
searching for substrings, and sorting on columns containing
symbols other than 0-9 or 0-F (hex) are examples of string
operators. Concepts of probability (permutation, choice,
frequency) relate to this domain just as well -- discussions of
ASCII and Unicode as permuted strings of 1s and 0s mapped to
charactersets is a good place to start -- sort of how we used
to start with the concepts of 'numerals' (with a brief look at
the ancient Roman).

(b) computer language expressions and more traditional math
book expressions are convergent.  The same ideas transfer
across to the operational context of the computer, but perhaps
with different symbolic representation: a difference that
should be acknowledged and embraced, not avoided or ignored.
At a most primitive level, this means looking at 3^2 and 3*2 as
valid representations of exponentiation and multiplication.  At
a higher level, we need to be introducing students to the
notion of class hierarchies (with inheritance) and to such
syntax as Object.property and Object.method().  In other words,
computer programming, symbolic processing, and mathematical
concepts need to be much more tightly interwoven.  Keeping
computer languages and math notations separate is an artificial
fluke of historical evolution, not an expression of sound or
intelligent curriculum design.

With these two reforms in place, you'll find that the outline
below covers a lot of the same ground, in the same order, as
the more traditional text books.  Discussions of ASCII and
Unicode get us into symbol strings used to identify finite
spaces or "inventories" (sets) and the sorting and retrieval of
these "keyed records" (using SQL) is just the usual Venn
Diagram stuff, but this time operationally explored using the
new syntax (e.g. something like

   SELECT name, dob, ssn ;
   FROM students ;
   WHERE state="OR" AND ;
     BETWEEN(dob, {01/01/80}, {01/01/90})

Then we move on to the concepts of number sets as specific
kinds of symbol sets, with defined operations (unary, binary
and so on), and algorithms as sequences of operators, with
"logical flow" controls (looping, conditional branching).   At
this point, we satisfy student curiousity by overviewing ALL
the calculator keys and what they're good for (sample problems)
-- no sense carrying this thing around if you aren't even
briefed on its essential functions.  So we open doors to trig,
log, maybe even standard deviation, right off the bat.  We're
also getting into tables of records and use these concepts to
store vertices of polyhedra as records in a database.  Syntax
like:

    ? tetrahedron.edges
    6

    ? tetrahedron.faces
    4

makes sense to students.

In the realm of symbol processing, they also learn the
differences and resemblances between scripting, markup and
programming languages and get projects allowing them to dabble
in all of them (POVRAY, HTML, VRML and XBase might be a good
selection).  That gives a basic familiarity with what goes on
behind the scenes on a computer.  Then they get a hands on
introduction to MathCad and/or Mathematica -- one of the
math-specific applications which help streamline symbolic
processing and is likely to sit on their desk for the duration
if they're heading into any math-related field.

Keeping the link to geometry is important -- spatial geometry.
Calculators are maybe stuck in flatland, but computers are not,
and one hallmark of feeling proficient in a mathematical sense
is whether one has what it takes to get a tetrahedron up on the
screen -- something you made happen.  A basic math class should
be empowering vis-a-vis the key artifacts of the day (e.g.
calculators and computers) and getting some spatial geometry on
screen (fly-throughable, if VRML) is the kind of rewarding
experience we've built up to and placed as a "capper" for this
course.

=================

            INTRODUCTION TO BASIC MATHEMATICS
             (Math 101 -- no prerequisites)

I.   Permuted symbols as finite "space" of identifiers
      (a) binary representation of charactersets
          (i)  ASCII
          (ii) Unicode
      (b) Itemizing, tracking (licenses, serial nos...)

II.  Business rules as "retrieval filters" using:
      (a) boolean logic (AND OR NOT)
      (b) SQL (standard query language)
        (i)    relational database models
        (ii)   set theory generalizations
      (c) sorting rules (alpha-based as well as numeric)
        (i)    set of integers as "sorted" number strings
        (ii)   floating point numbers
        (iii)  character sorts (not just Roman alphabet)

III. Math and Computer notations as:
      (a) convergent
        (i)    concept class hierarchies (inheritance)
        (ii)   object.method(), object.property notation
        (iii)  using operators for alpha-crunching, not just
               number crunching
      (b) context-dependent problem solving
        (i)    what is an algorithm?
        (ii)   what tools useful?
        (iii)  what degree of precision relevant?

IV.  Operating with Math Tools
      (a) calculator
        (i)   tour of all the keys and what they do
        (ii)  geometric concepts behind many of them
      (b) computer
        (i)   scripting, programming and markup languages
        (ii)  JavaScript, HTML, VRML, XBase (or other)
        (iii) Generic Math Applications
              (MathCad, Mathematica -- overview, foundational)
      (c) using calculator and computer to
        (i)   solve some real world problems
              (e.g. probabilities, conversions, triangles)
        (ii)  draw and rotate polyhedra (physical model & computer)

=================

More curriculum stuff by this writer:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/

Kirby
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:29:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Viridiacs!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      22-OCT-1998 16:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 sir;
    "Global Warming" is an unconscious synonym for "overall warming",
 such as was especially paradigmatic with the earlier computerized
 simulacra, wherein the poles were thought to warm *more*
 than the equator.  of course,
 that is not true, and is somewhat reproached by the attempt
 to model clouds, the acknowledged Problemmo Numero Uno
 of GCMers.  however,
 they still have no particular *conceptual* model of the problem.
    thus, the entire notion of "glass house gasses",
 as the British put it, is being used to crush sovereignity,
 with the Kyoto Protocols, baased upon another rampant metaphor,
 of Fossilized Fuels (tm) (at least, I *think*,
 it's a trademark of Mobil Corp. .-)

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:37:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Viridiacs!

MESSAGE from Brian Hutchings 22-OCT-1998 16:29

 sir;
    "Global Warming" is an unconscious synonym for "overall warming",
 such as was especially paradigmatic with the earlier computerized
 simulacra, wherein the poles were thought to warm *more*
 than the equator.  of course,
 that is not true, and is somewhat reproached by the attempt
 to model clouds, the acknowledged Problemmo Numero Uno
 of GCMers.  however,
 they still have no particular *conceptual* model of the problem.
    thus, the entire notion of "glass house gasses",
 as the British put it, is being used to crush sovereignity,
 with the Kyoto Protocols, baased upon another rampant metaphor,
 of Fossilized Fuels (tm) (at least, I *think*,
 it's a trademark of Mobil Corp. .-)

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      22-OCT-1998 16:37
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 also, if you happen to live in Calif., note that
 Nader's populist (we'll *double* your savings & make them real;
 nuclear power is *bad*, and should be made costly) Prop.9,
 fails to amke any mention of the Kyoto Protocols,
 which is as Viridiac a treaty as they come; eh?
    you guys should be lined-up on the autobahn & shot in the feet!
 (just kidding !-)

 --The End of History -- not again ?!?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:00:57 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Ad copy for Struck + Povray
Comments: To: struck@xs4all.nl
In-Reply-To:  <v03007800b25481425318@[199.4.126.221]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

I booted Struck98d this evening and quickly built a 4-frequency
tetrahedron for rendering in Povray.  The relative smoothness of
the process, plus some other successes with software today, put
me in an upbeat mood and I was inspired to write some "ad copy"
for Struck and Povray for posting at my Oregon Curriculum Network
website.

Feedback welcome.

http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/struck.html

Kirby
4D Solutions
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:55:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bucky Book Source
Comments: To: "Trevor at J. Whirler" <trevor@jwhirler.com>
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.3.96.981023123433.4994I-100000@sun.aracnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Trevor,

Will do!  (In fact, you were already scheduled in my next website update.)

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor at J. Whirler [mailto:trevor@jwhirler.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 12:35 PM
> To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> Subject: Bucky Book Source
>
> Dear Joe:
>
> Could you please add the following URL...
>
> http://www.jwhirler.com/
>
> ... to the following URL...
>
>    Linkname: Buckminster Fuller Bibliography
>         URL: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Biblio.htm
>
> ... Allegra asked if she could list me at the BFI Web page as the
> source for out of print Bucky books - I
> didn't have too much trouble saying yes!  I'd be honored if you
> could do the same.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Trevor
>
> Telephone: +503-236-2364
> Fax: +503-232-0664
> --
> Trevor Blake     http://www.jwhirler.com/
> J. Whirler Used and Rare Children's Books
> P. O. Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:52:31 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      CONFERENCE PROGRAMS: FULLER & HIS WORK
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Hello All,  Would like to welcome anyone who is close enough
to make a trip to Oswego, New York to attend our 59th annual fall
conference held next week on Thursday and Friday, October 29 & 30.
Our design area speaker this year is Robert Duchesnay of Montreal,
Canada and The Canadian Centre of Architecture.  Robert has been
photo archiving Fuller's work for the past fifteen years.   He will
present two different programs on Thursday the 29th and repeat the same
programs on Friday, the 30th.  The conference registration fee is
twenty dollars.   General program description for the two programs
are below.  If you can attend please email me direct and i will help
you with any directions or information you request.

..........................................................................

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Program titles

THURSDAY AND FRIDAY @ 10:45 to 11:45,  October 29

Morning program title; Buckminster Fuller, The architecture and the legacy,
a photo essay depicting Buckminster Fuller's early landmark buildings and
housing prototypes.  We will explore and demystify the historical and
technical aspects of these outstanding structures and review their present
state of being.  Since 1927 Buckminster Fuller has taken free reign to produce
the most startling, revolutionary, advanced housing enclosures of the 20th
century.  These unique dwelling concepts totally broke away from the conventional
architectural dogma of the day , quite often using materials and techniques
normally confined to the aircraft industry.
.........................................................................

THURSDAY & FRIDAY @ 2:45 to 3:45,  October 30

Afternoon session;" A Fuller Explanation", a 45 minute video interview with
Ed Applewhite , collaborator and co-author of Synergetics with Buckminster
Fuller.  No other person on this planet can better explain and reveal to us
the power and the magic at work in the "Fuller mind".This video interview
is a  work in progress so the actual unedited raw footage will be presented
as is.  A brief "question and answer" period will follow.  Robert Duchesnay
is also an artist and photographer and will present some of his art work
that is related to Fuller's structures during the conference.  He had full
hard hat site access on the repair of the Expo Dome in Montreal and will
bring for display a 21 inch Expo Dome HUB.

...............................................................................

        The programs are arranged to give us extended time during lunch
and after the last session to give time for small group interaction with
the speaker.  We have open studio hours during the entire conference to
provide other times to view video tapes and extended conversation.  Sorry
for not getting this posted earlier but i have been out of state due to
the death of my sister and trying to get caught up and conference together
and have not been very active on the list this month.  Robert Gray and a
crew are erecting the thirty foot, 1/2 sphere, one inch conduit dome just
outside the studio at this time on a splendid fall day.  Robert Gray will
be here on Thursday and will be available to talk about the pillow dome
project which is coming along slowly due to funding and other work, but
progress is being made.

        Sorry i can't beam up here or wish you here, but i can wish you
were here, so there.  Any questions welcome.

        Best Regards, john belt
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:00:07 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Mark Somers <msomers@WTP.NET>
Subject:      Struck and Dome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFF67.5F50FF20"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFF67.5F50FF20
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kirby, you wouldn't by any chance have a really dumbed down, explanation =
of how to get Struck and or Rick Bono's Dome programs to work. I've been =
struggling with both programs for months and I can't get either to run. =
I want to create some domes for depictions of domed over cities in =
space. On the Moon on Mars. etc etc for my space site. I could create =
glass spheres quite easily using Pov ray but I want to create at the =
very least the hint that the domes are geodesic.=20

Also I'd like to create extremely high frequency geodesic domes to =
depict domes that are miles in diamter.  =20

Thanks

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFF67.5F50FF20
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Kirby, you wouldn't by any chance =
have a really=20
dumbed down, explanation of how to get Struck and or Rick Bono's Dome =
programs=20
to work. I've been struggling with both programs for months and I can't =
get=20
either to run. I want to create some domes for depictions of domed over =
cities=20
in space. On the Moon on Mars. etc etc for my space site. I could create =
glass=20
spheres quite easily using Pov ray but I want to create at the very =
least the=20
hint that the domes are geodesic.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Also I'd like to create extremely =
high frequency=20
geodesic domes to depict domes that are miles in diamter.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFF67.5F50FF20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:58:22 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Struck and Dome
Comments: To: Mark Somers <msomers@wtp.net>
In-Reply-To:  <000c01bdffad$e898e040$6dc196d0@home.wtp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

>>
>>Re DOME and STRUCK --
>>
>>what's your platform?
>>
>>Kirby
>
>
>
>Windows95
>
>Thanks!
>Mark


Not sure how far you've gotten.  Lets start with DOME.

Unzip in some directory.  Go START, Programs, DOS-Prompt
from Win95 and get to that directory using DOS e.g.

CD D:
CD D:\DOME

Then run DOME in DOS by entering DOME at the prompt.  It'll
give you command line switches.  Hmmmm, lets see if I have a
copy around here (I download, use, delete, download again...)

Nope, have to grab a copy from Rick's site.  There's that
music Rick starts up when you hit his

http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/html/domes.html (well done)

OK, now lets unzip -- I'll just take dome.exe, leaving
the rest in the zip file.

Note: ALT+Enter gives you a full DOS window.  Just type
DOME on the command line and you get:

Dome 4.60, Copyright (C) 1995, 1996 - Richard J. Bono
Dome comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. This is free software,
and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.
See GNU General Public License for more details.

Usage: dome [-fnnn] [-cn] [-px] [-s] [-sb] [-en] [-v] [-w] [-h] [filename.xxx]
Where: -fnnn is geodesic frequency (default nnn=3)
       -cn is class type (n=1 or 2; default n=1)
       -en enables ellipse and specifies eccentricity (default = 1.0)
           n > 0.0 and n < 2.0
       -px sets the polyhedron type
           where x is: i for icosahedron (default)
                       o for octahedron
                       t for tetrahedron
       -s  generate full sphere data (default: symmetry triangle)
       -sb generate buckyball. Sets Class I
           Frequency must be a multiple of three
       -w  Enable wire-frame DXF or VRML output (default: Face data)
       -v  verbose data display at run-time
       -h  displays this help screen
           filename.xxx is a standard DOS filename
           where xxx is: DXF, WRL, DAT, POV or PRN


So if I want a full sphere of 4 frequency (say), I'd go:

Sun 10-25-1998  1:20:11.80
E:\povray\work> dome -f4 -s mysphere.pov
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Let's try it... (note, the file extension is what tells the software
you want a POVray file).  Dome spits back with:

Dome 4.60, Copyright (C) 1995, 1996 - Richard J. Bono
Dome comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. This is free software,
and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.
See GNU General Public License for more details.

Execution Complete -- Output File: mysphere.pov


OK, now I'll boot Povray and select 'Render' without doing any tweeking
at all of mysphere.pov, just to see what I get.  I'll put the GIF at
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/images/skydome.gif and you point your
browser to see what I got.  Note that Povray 3.1 default saves as a
BMP, so I had to convert the output to a GIF to make it browser-
compatible.

... actually, I decided to do a screen capture of the untweeked
output, with the Povray interface in the background.  This is a GIF I
can use at my website as well, as advertising for Rick's freeware
(linked from http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeres.html)

Kirby

PS:  pretty cool program, this DOME!  That sky & clouds are default
-- not something I had to add.  Let me know if you hit a glitch
getting at least this far.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:12:48 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Daniel kucheran <dankuchg@NTL.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Big Mac dome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It looks like even the Big Mac will be building  a dome for the new
millenium - check the Sunday London Times
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:51:50 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Tensegrity in biology
Comments: To: smlevin@erols.com
In-Reply-To:  <36332A5E.C7B@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dr. Levin,

I forwarded your email to the Geodesic newsletter.  Also, I added "http://"
to your web address in order to make it "hot" (clickable).

Thank you,

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen M. Levin [mailto:smlevin@erols.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 5:41 AM
> To: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Subject: Tensegrity in biology
>
>
> I think you might be interested in an article on tensegrity constructs
> in biology. I wrote it in 1982, and it is now updated in several
> articles and book chapters. It is now on the web and can be found at
> http://www.ati-net.com/levin.htm.
> Steve Levin
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:51:59 -0500
Reply-To:     smlevin@erols.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Stephen M. Levin" <smlevin@EROLS.COM>
Organization: Potomac Back Center
Subject:      subscribe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

subscibe geodesic
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:00:11 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Rick Bono <rjbono@HILINE.NET>
Organization: http://www.supernews.com,
              The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here
Subject:      Re: Struck and Dome
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark,

I can't speak for Struck but I can for DOME so here it goes...


DOME executables are complied for MS-DOS. If you are using Unix or a
derivative you will need to use the enclosed makefile to compile the
source code. An executable exists for MacOS. There is also a
contributed windows (16-bit) shell program for those who would rather
use a GUI interface.

The following assumes you are working with DOME in either DOS or Unix.

DOME does not display geodesic structures it creates datafiles in
various formats which contain the structures. You'll need an external
viewer to see them.

This example will show what to enter to produce a 10 frequency class
II sphere in POVray format.

1.) Get to a command prompt
2.) type: dome -f10 -c2 -s myfile.pov

that's it! It should show signs of executing ( a time passage twirlly
should appear).

The result is a pair of files one is myfile.pov which contains a basic
scene. The other file contains myfile.inc which is a file containg all
the geometry calculated by the program. The POV option saves the
vertices as spheres, edges as cylinders and faces as triangular
plates.

If you used myfile.wrl you would have a VRML file containing the face
data.

If the problem you are having is that the program hangs or something
like that let me know. The exectuable was complied to work on
everything IBM-PCish ever made. The only limit is the available
memory. Keep the frequncy low if you are short on RAM.

Hope this has helped Mark. I look forward to hearing if you've had any
luck.

Rick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:37:24 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: subscribe
Comments: To: smlevin@erols.com
In-Reply-To:  <3633E3CF.7471@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

Follow the directions on this webpage to subscribe to the Geodesic
newsletter ("list"):

http://tile.net/listserv/geodesic.html



Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen M. Levin
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 6:52 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: subscribe
>
>
> subscibe geodesic
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:04:26 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ENERGY
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Optimist" Predicts World Oil Demand Will Outstrip Production In 2020

http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/ucol.opwodw.html

Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:41:15 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      ENERGY

MESSAGE from ="List 26-OCT-1998 13:13
 "Optimist" Predicts World Oil Demand Will Outstrip Production In 2020

 http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/ucol.opwodw.html

 Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com
 Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
 http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      26-OCT-1998 13:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah, following ye olde Obnoxico-trademarked paradigm, is Optimist?...
 ladies & germs, Mother Earth gives you Fossilized Fuels (tm) !!
    well, even Bucky fell for the Mobilsuara$ Rek$ cartoon, clearly --
 even Hamaker, in part!...  however,
 there is local chink in the virtual realityware, here
 in my adopted home-town, having adopted the notion
 of purchasing Gorby's "Green-e", at the behest
 of the Green on the Coucnil and his 2 "Teal" cohorts -- and
 the rest of the Council, who see the need to continually prick
 at the envelope of being a Tourist Community, or, now,
 a Big Green Boutique.  whence, only about 2 weeks later,
 Nader, who is backing yet another Green for our Council
 who happens also to be the obviously "establishment" candidate
 --when my profile appeared in the local insert of the "paper
 of record" on p3, his mug was on the front, in color,
 facing the incumbant, with a ludicrous "story"
 about "is the City going Green?", whereinat there are only 715
 of'em so-registered e.g....  whoah,
 the trainwreck o'my thoughtprocess.  anyway,
 NADER CAME-OUT AGAINST GREEN-E   (TM), as a marketing scam with huge overhead
 not really brining any "renewables online, but
 merely hsuffling the deck & adding mark-ups,
 undoubtedly alon with the new deregulatory fervor (recall the S&Ls;
 thank you).  and that is Nader's problem:
 he *does* support Prop.9, a state initiative to mandate calrifications
 of that deregulation, attacking nuclear power & "mandating" a doubling
 of the only-alleged "savings" of 10% of deregulation --
 with absolutely no whisper of the ULTRATEALIST Kyoto Protocols.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:05:14 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Optimist Says **** Happens!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-OCT-1998 14:05
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 sorry; I meant, VirtualRealityWEAR, or RDU, for (your) short(s) !!
    oh, and I have seen the recent *Sci.Am.* feature on the *subjet du goo*;
 I believe *every* thing that the Seven (or however many) Sisters saith,
 of course.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:09:35 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Struck and Dome
In-Reply-To:  <000901bdff99$aae73440$6cc196d0@home.wtp.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:00 PM 10/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>
Kirby, you wouldn't by any chance have a really dumbed down, explanation of
how to get Struck and or Rick Bono's Dome programs to work. I've been
struggling with both programs for months and I can't get either to run. I
want to create some domes for depictions of domed over cities in space. On
the Moon on Mars. etc etc for my space site. I could create glass spheres
quite easily using Pov ray but I want to create at the very least the hint
that the domes are geodesic.

Also I'd like to create extremely high frequency geodesic domes to depict
domes that are miles in diamter.

Thanks

Mark

<<<<

Where is this site? I'd love to see the pictures!


Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
   Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:40:28 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      DOME PICS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE0120.DE55D1A0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE0120.DE55D1A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

72 Dome Pictures at AltaVista Photo Finder

http://image.altavista.com/cgi-bin/avncgi?do=3&verb=no&oshape=n&oonepp=1&opr
em=0&query=geodesic&search=Search&ophoto=on&oart=on&ocolor=on&obw=on

Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/



------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE0120.DE55D1A0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3510.1400"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>72 Dome Pictures at AltaVista =
Photo Finder=20
<BR><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://image.altavista.com/cgi-bin/avncgi?do=3D3&verb=3Dno&oshape=
=3Dn&oonepp=3D1&oprem=3D0&query=3Dgeodesic&search=3DSearch&ophoto=3Don&oa=
rt=3Don&ocolor=3Don&obw=3Don"=20
target=3D_blank>http://image.altavista.com/cgi-bin/avncgi?do=3D3&amp;verb=
=3Dno&amp;oshape=3Dn&amp;oonepp=3D1&amp;oprem=3D0&amp;query=3Dgeodesic&am=
p;search=3DSearch&amp;ophoto=3Don&amp;oart=3Don&amp;ocolor=3Don&amp;obw=3D=
on</A><BR><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#008000>Joe S Moore</FONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR><FONT =
color=3D#ff0000=20
face=3D"">Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute</FONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A><BR></STRONG></FONT><=
/P></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE0120.DE55D1A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:05:18 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      GRUNCH and real wealth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 98 23:01:44 -0800
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Cc: vznuri@netcom13.netcom.com
Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton

this guy is really brilliant. the essay is brillant.
the pro-capitalist elements here should read this
very carefully and read his book. very well researched.
impeccable credentials. the real "truth behind the
scenes and events" of what's going on in the world


------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:04:39 +0000
To: uk-anti-maif@iirc.net
From: Paul Swann <pswann@easynet.co.uk>
Subject: Your Mortal Enemy

Your Mortal Enemy

Faceless bankers now move two trillion dollars around the world every day,
searching for quick profits, breaking national economies and putting ever
more pressure on natural wealth. What's to be done? Slay the beast of
capitalism, says David C Korten, and return money to its proper role.

An edited and ammended extract of David Korten's Schumacher Lecture in
Bristol on October 17 1998.

Published in The Guardian, October 21 1998.


For those of us who grew up believing capitalism is the foundation of
democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening
to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the highest
bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger
than most countries, denying one's brothers and sisters a source of
livelihood is now rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of
nature and life to make money for the already rich is treated as progress.

The world is now ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless
bankers and hedge fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the
shadowy world of global finance. Each day they move more than two trillion
dollars around the world in search of quick profits and safe havens sending
exchange rates and stock markets into wild gyrations wholly unrelated to
any underlying economic reality.

With abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell
corporations, and hold the most powerful politicians hostage to their
interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own.
When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to protect
them against loss with pronouncements about how the poor must tighten their
belts and become more fiscally prudent.

In the United States, the media keep the public preoccupied with the
details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for lying
about an inconsequential affair. Meanwhile, Congress and the president are
working out of view to push through funding increases for the IMF to bail
out the banks who put the entire global financial system at risk with
reckless lending.

They are advancing financial deregulation to encourage even more reckless
financial speculation. And they are negotiating international agreements
such as the Multilateral Agreement on Investment intended to make the world
safe for financial speculators by preventing governments from intervening
to regulate their activities.

To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves about the nature
of money and the ways of those who decide who will have access to it and
who will not.

As a medium of exchange, money is one of the most useful of human
inventions. But as we become ever more dependent on it to acquire the basic
means of our sustenance, we give to the institutions and people who control
its creation and allocation the power to decide whether we shall live in
prosperity or destitution.

With the increasing breakdown of community and governmental social safety
nets, our money system has become the most effective instrument of social
control and extraction ever devised. The fact that few of us think of the
money system as an instrument of control makes it more powerful and
efficient as an instrument of wealth extraction.

What of capitalism, the self-proclaimed champion of democracy, market
freedom, peace and prosperity? Modern capitalism involves a concentration
of wealth by the few to the exclusion of the many; it is more than a system
of human elites. It has evolved into a system of autonomous rule by money
and for money that functions on autopilot beyond the control of any human
actor or responsiveness to any human sensibility.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to be the mortal enemy
of democracy and the market. Its relationship to democracy and the market
economy is now much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body
whose life energy it expropriates.

Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets
that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth
without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the
cancerous cell deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately
kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the
societies it infests.

One reason we fail to recognise the seriousness of our predicament is
because we fail to see how capitalism is destroying the world's real
wealth. It destroys social capital when it breaks up unions, bids down
wages, and treats workers as expendable commodoties, leaving society to
absorb the family and community breakdown and violence that are inevitable
consequences. It destroys institutional capital when it undermines the
function of governments and democracy by weakening environmental health and
labour standards, and extracting public subsidies, bailouts and tax
exemptions which inflate corporate profits while passing the burdens of
risk to governments and the working poor.

We arejust beginning to wake up to the fact that the industrial era has in
a mere century consumed a consequential portion of the natural capital it
took evolution millions of years to create. It is now drawing down our
social, institutional and human capital as well.

Democracy and markets are wonderful ways of organising the political and
economic life of a society to allocate resources fairly and efficiently
while securing the freedom and sovereignty of the individual. But modern
capitalism is about using money to make money for people who already have
more of it than they need. Its institutions breed inequality, exclusion,
environmental destruction, social irresponsibility and economic instability
while homogenizing cultures, weakening institutions of democracy and
eroding the moral and social fabric of society.

Though capitalism cloaks itself in the rhetoric of democracy and the
market, it is dedicated to the principle that sovereignty properly resides
not in the person, but rather in money and property. Under democracy and
the market, the people rule. Under capitalism, money rules.

The challenge is to replace the global capitalist economy with a properly
regulated and locally rooted market economy that invests in the
regeneration of living capital, increases net beneficial economic output,
distributes that output justly and equitably to meet the basic needs of
everyone, strengthens the institutions of democracy and the market, and
returns money to its proper role as the servant of productive activity.

It should favour smaller local enterprise over global corporations,
encourage local ownership, penalise financial speculation, and give
priority to meeting the basic needs of the many over providing luxuries and
diversions for the wealthy few. In most aspects it should do exactly the
opposite of what the global capitalist economy is doing.

Most of the responsibility and initiative must come from local and national
levels. Supporting nations and localities in this task should become the
core agenda of the United Nations, as the protection of people and
communities from predatory global corporations and finance is arguably the
central security issue of our time.

The first positive step would be to dismantle the World Trade Organisation
on the ground that there is no legitimate need for a global police force to
protect global corporations from the actions of democratically-elected
national and local governments so that the richest one per cent of humanity
can become even richer at the expense of the rest.

The WTO is a powerful, but illegitimate and democratically unaccountable
institution put in place through largely secret negotiations with little or
no public debate to serve purposes largely conltrary to the public
interest. The 99 percent of the world's people whose interests it does not
serve have every right to eliminate it.

Addressing the real need to police the global economy requires an
organisation very different from the WTO - an open and democratic
organisation with the mandate and power to set and enforce rules holding
those corporations that operate across national borders democratically
accountable to the people and priorities of the nations where they operate.

It should as well have the power to regulate and tax international
financial flows and institutions. And it should have a mandate to make
speculation unprofitable and to help protect the integrity of domestic
financial institutions from the financial markets and the predatory
practices of international financial speculators.

There are obvious questions as to whether such proposals are politically
feasible given the stranglehold of corporations and big money over our
political processes. Yet we could use this same reasoning to conclude that
human survival itself is not politically feasible.

Global corporations and financial institutions are our collective
creations. And we have both the right and the means to change or replace
them if they do not serve.


Dr David Korten is president of the People-Centered Development Forum
in Washington State, USA <http://iisd1.iisd.ca/pcdf> and the author of
'When Corporations Rule the World' and the forthcoming 'The Post-Corporate
World: Life After Capitalism'.




- - --------------6FBCF3F02DF50E9512DB50EB--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:36:13 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Danish Scientists Develop Atom-Size Computer Chip
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

[See URL for complete story.  The 'ephemeralization' process spoken of by
Buckminster Fuller continues, revealing the success of his Design Science
Decade.]

   Linkname: Danish Scientists Develop Atom-size Computer Chip
        URL: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/tx/19981027/tc/atom_2.html
       Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:58:22 GMT

Danish Scientists Develop Atom-size Computer Chip

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - Danish scientists said they have created a chip
where a single atom jumping back and forth could generate the binary code
which is the basis of digital information used by computers.

Applying this technique -- which might only become commercially viable in
a decade or two -- information stored today on one million CD-ROMs could
be stored on a single disc, physics doctor Francois Grey, the team leader,
told Reuters by telephone.

``Society seems to find use for this,'' he said, referring to the search
for ever smaller units in various technological applications.

Using a scanning-tunneling microscope, a four-man team at the
microelectronics center of the Danish University of Technology was able to
remove from a hydrogen layer surface on a silicon chip one of a pair of
hydrogen atoms attached to one silicon atom, leaving the remaining
hydrogen atom jumping back and forth.

``This shows you can do it with the material in a controlled way,'' Grey
said, noting the experiment had been completed successfully in normal room
temperature. Hydrogen-covered silicon chips are standard in modern
computers.

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:36:28 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Good essay.  Thanks for forwarding it.  Capitalism as an economic model is
obsolete and has been for a long time.  Like Communism, it depends on
rewarding non-production by certain individuals.  The new model mentioned in
this essay does not have a commonly accepted name yet -- perhaps
"Entrepreneurialism" would fill the bill.

I am personally familiar with several businesses which have created a new
model for paying employees.  Each employee is given a statistic, and paid
strictly according to current production.  While many people would howl
against this sort of thing, i have noticed that it usually keeps these
businesses viable, and creates a tremendous incentive for each employee to
improve production in their individual area.  This particular structure is a
harmonic small-scale development of the Entrepreneurial economic model.

Mostly governments can h*lp businesses best by staying the heck out of our
way.  This essay certainly communicates that idea.

At 01:05 PM 10/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sun, 25 Oct 98 23:01:44 -0800
>From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Cc: vznuri@netcom13.netcom.com
>Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton
>
>this guy is really brilliant. the essay is brillant.
>the pro-capitalist elements here should read this
>very carefully and read his book. very well researched.
>impeccable credentials. the real "truth behind the
>scenes and events" of what's going on in the world
>
>
>------- Forwarded Message
>
>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:04:39 +0000
>To: uk-anti-maif@iirc.net
>From: Paul Swann <pswann@easynet.co.uk>
>Subject: Your Mortal Enemy
>
>Your Mortal Enemy
>
<snip>
-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist
Author of <Design Ecology: Creating Healthy Living Environments>
MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:36:32 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Gravity Control Ideas
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is being posted simultaneously to the Tesla and Geodesic lists and to a
couple of people who are directly concerned with this.  I am not capable of
doing any actual building at this time, so feedback from builders is always
welcome.  I will not respond to reasons why this can't be done, because
that's not going to h*elp anyone.  The fundamental assumptions of gravity
control do not violate the Laws of Thermodynamics.  What we can assume here,
is that gravity, like all other forces of nature, will respond to and be
modified by the force of Resonance.  (Tesla's most widely used inventions
depend on an application of Resonance to the force of electromagnetism.)

It appears that gravity control could be accomplished by building a geodesic
cage, and placing a spinning disk motor in its center.  The appropriate
cages can now be modelled with a Zometool 5 or above kit.  Hexagonal and
Pentagonal cages appear to be the most viable.  Materials are critical, and
will have to be calculated using Harmonic Chemistry principles related to
fifth and sixth harmonics of various metals.  Troy Reed has one proposed
material formula at this time.  Other proposed material formulas may appear
in the context of any discussions resulting from this post.

The "flying saucer" motif comes up a lot.  Guidance systems have not yet
been formulated.  I suspect that the disk emanating from the center of the
cage could contain masses of special materials which, when shifted, can
change the direction of the vehicle.  The top and bottom hemispheres are
primarily aesthetic.  Most humans would probably choose to ride in the top
hemisphere, although one could ride in the bottom just as well.  The bottom
hemisphere can contain cargo.  Searle never produced a guidance system,
which would explain the reasons why he never actually produced a viable
vehicle which could be demonstrated more than once.

Another factor affecting guidance would appear to be resonant waves
emanating from a planet, possibly related to gravitational force which is
related to the fundamental geodesic structure of any planet or star.  On
Earth, this force varies a lot due to weather patterns, and changes most
radically about two or three days in advance of any storm front.  This would
explain why Searle's machines (assuming he actually built them) always ended
up lost, unexpectedly shooting straight up through the roof.

I do have some work written on the subject of Harmonic Chemistry, but will
have to charge for sending the current draft to anyone because of time and
space considerations.  The first draft of this work is contained in the 1994
International Forum on New Science Proceedings, Page 471 ff., if you happen
to have that available.

For anyone attending the International Forum on New Science this weekend, i
will be there throughout most of the conference; ready, willing, and able to
engage in more detailed discussions.

-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist
Author of <Design Ecology: Creating Healthy Living Environments>
MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:32:51 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Stupid Gravity Tricks

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      28-OCT-1998 11:32
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 "(assuming he actually built them)" -- perfect candor,
 dysguised as humor!...  actually,
 I saw one of Searle's wood-framed things;
 it reminded me of the underground dome-house, or "landed saucer",
 that we were building!
    the rest of your posting is sheer bilge, though, but, hey --
 any thing to get people using a Zometool 5 (!?!) kit, I guess.

 "gravity responds to resonance", in deed;
 just look at the massive work of Alfven and Ahrrenius, for NASA !!
 (not all of Tesla's patents were tested, of course, although
 anyone is welcome to apply them to one's forehead with Krazy Glue (tm) .-)

 does Z-5 come in one of those neat, ultra-packed 18-wheelers,
 like the Dymaxion House?

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:49:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Mark Somers <msomers@WTP.NET>
Subject:      Venting protocals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0271.61AF7000"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0271.61AF7000
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nice description of fascism, Mr Riversong. But I guess when the inbreeds =
in Wyoming aren't busying themselves with linching gays they're working =
on re-establishing the third reich.=20

And why is it everytime some loony builds some super duper antigravity =
machine they just can't seem to reproduce the results to quell the =
skeptics. But boy oh boy they sure can produce plenty of, after the =
fact, eye witness testimony. =20

Regarding Tesla: I've got tons of his work, his actual work, not the =
shit others claim to be his work. And he was an inventor not some god or =
alien. Just read his own notes etc. Fuck no wonder when I was watching =
recently a kid show they had said Marconi brought about wireless =
transmission and not Tesla.

   =20

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0271.61AF7000
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Nice description of fascism, Mr =
Riversong. But I=20
guess when the inbreeds in Wyoming aren't busying themselves with =
linching gays=20
they're working on re-establishing the third reich.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>And why is it everytime some loony =
builds some=20
super duper antigravity machine they just can't seem to reproduce the =
results to=20
quell the skeptics. But boy oh boy they sure can produce plenty of, =
after the=20
fact, eye witness testimony.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regarding Tesla: I've got tons of =
his work, his=20
actual work, not the shit others claim to be his work. And he was an =
inventor=20
not some god or alien. Just read his own notes etc. Fuck no wonder when =
I was=20
watching recently a kid show they had said Marconi brought about =
wireless=20
transmission and not Tesla.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0271.61AF7000--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:41:14 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and Real Wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      28-OCT-1998 11:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this is wrong, wrong, Wrong!
    "capitalism" is word with a literal meaning, which does not have
 to be associated with the Imperialist (Free Trade) or Fascist (Guild-run)
 models of physical economy; it is only so, because
 of the pernicious pedagogical mandates of the Fabian Socialists,
 notably at Chicago University, such as John Dewey, and
 their Mont Pelerin Society offshoots, the "Austrian School" and Milton Friedm
 and so on ad vomitorium, inclusive of *many* nobelistes from the UoC.
 (I do not know if the 2 nobelistes of the blown-out Long Term Capital Mgmt.
 were from this particular branch, though.)

 these are the same folks, who equate the Monroe doctrine
 with "American Imperialism", although it was certainly abused
 with the "gunboat diplomacy" of Teddy Roosevelt (the Spanish-American War
 over Cuba e.g.).

 --He Shot the GOOD Sherriff
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:43:44 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Danish Scientists Create One-Atom Computer

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      28-OCT-1998 11:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 hey, I predicted that!...  actually,
 it was the "one-electron" computer, so, no good cigar for me.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:54:08 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      28-OCT-1998 15:54
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, oopsie.

 thus saith:
  To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.net
  Subject: Re: GRUNCH and real wealth


  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      28-OCT-1998 12:05
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   ah, just noticed, it was published in The Guardian, a British "Left" rag,
   which is about as Fabian Socialiste as can be!

   here's the appropriate reference (scroll past Tarpley's new book,
   _El Phed is Dead!_ or what ever, and click on the right-hand book-cover,
   "Against Oligarchy":
   http://www.tarpley.net

  --MAA05677.909605105/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:19:11 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael:

Every adversity brings with it a hidden advantage. With Grunch, the advantage
is as clear as the disadvantage. Buckminster Fuller expressed hope that
Grunch, which owns 90-percent of the world's assets, would see the
profitability of mass producing the artifacts needed to make humanity wholly
successful. Since they possess the world's industrial infrastructure and have
worldwide operations, they're in the best position to do so, but they're
robber barons, and they're not conditioned to think or act this way. Fuller
saw computers showing them the profitability of reorienting their affairs to
raise the living standards of the impoverished. It's possible, and necessary
to turn this adversity that is draining the life out of the planet into a
benefit for all humanity. The Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success
for All Humanity and the industrial convention that will be held in
conjunction with this event, such as the Dwelling Machine Design and Trade
Show, will get industry interested and involved in gearing up to mass-produce
the artifacts the world needs to achieve universally sustainable, physical
success for all. Once they make up their mind to do this, Grunch and LAWCAP
has the ability to sweep aside any governmental red tape that stands in their way.

The following excerpts are from GRUNCH of Giants, which is online at
http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html

We have now scientifically and
incontrovertibly found that there is
ample to support all humanity. But
humanity and its leaders have not yet
learned so in sufficiently convincing
degree to reorient world affairs in such
a manner as to realize a sustainable high
standard of living for all.

GRUNCH did not bring [starvation]
about, but it could very profitably
bring it to an end. Just because it is
possible does not mean that it is easy.
With the computers' guidance, however,
and some executive vision, courage,
initiative, and follow-through, it can be
done very profitably in terms of money
and lasting kudos for GRUNCH and
prohumanity enterprise. It would cost
only 3 percent of Grunch's annual
dividend earnings to not only feed all
those now starving to death but also to
alleviate the dire poverty around the
entire planet, since the population
explosion is occurring strictly amongst
impoverished people. Such a world
initiative on the part of Grunch would
eliminate one of the two great threats
to humanity's continuance on planet
Earth: nuclear bombing and
overpopulation.

Grunch could also prove
to be an army of benign giants, because
it will depend more and more on its
complex, world-around computerization
integration, and the data entered into
that integrated network will continually
evidence that the present technology
could make the world work for
everyone, and at a much more
profitable level than realized from
weapons production.

It is evident that the degree of technical
"advantage" now attained by
world-around industrial production
capability, if realistically appraised and
articulated, now shows that all humanity
has just reached a state of
comprehensive technical advantage
adequate to provide a billionaire's level
of living on an indefinitely sustainable
base for all of the over four billion
human passengers now aboard
Spaceship Earth (see Critical Path).
The world's economic accounting
system, if properly entered into the
world's computers, will quickly indicate
that comprehensive economic success
for all humanity is now realizable within
a Design Science Decade. All it takes is
shifting from weaponry to livingry
production.

History's unprecedentedly large and
invisible supranational Grunch of Giants
being too supra- and infra-visibly large
to be sensitively comprehended, it is
difficult to surmise and accredit that
the almost omni-computerized giant
may be evolution's agent of most
effective establishment of a
world-embracing socioeconomic system
most logically suited for the
mass-production and distribution of its
products and services to economically
successful humanity. It could well be
that the total-world-involved,
supranational giant corporations'
computer operations might, to their
corporate directors' astonishment and
to popular surprise, lead the Grunch into
profitable discard of all that is not true,
as for instance that anybody owns
anything. Commonly acknowledged
operational custodianship and popular
reaccreditation of the integrated
world-around technology management
may supplant "ownership" with Hertz
and telephone-renting.

The way that the giant can be
successfully led into doing so is for a
substantial majority of humanity, and
eventually all humanity, realistically to
comprehend the falsity of the greater
part of the inventory of academic
premises and axioms upon which the
thus misconditioned reflexing of
educated" society is based. For
instance, there is no God-validated
deed to property of any kind
whatsoever. There are no solids. There
are no things-only systemic complexes
of events interacting in pure principle.
There is no up or down in Universe.
There is no cubic structure. There are
no straight lines. There is no one-,
two-, or three-dimensionality. There is
only four- or six-dimensionality, etc. As
we eliminate that which isn't true, we
inadvertently admit into reality that
which is true. As world society divests
itself of that which experimental
evidence demonstrates to be untrue
and embracingly enters into its
computer the mathematical formulae of
all that can be experimentally proven to
be true, all the socially, selfishly
malignant characteristics of the giant
may vanish and the
omni-pro-social-advantage-producing
capabilities may prevail and flourish.

...we now have only fifty
months within which to exercise our
option to convert all Earthian industrial
productivity from killingry to livingry
products and service systems.

...despite the reality of humanity's
option to make it for all humanity, my
own conclusion as to whether humanity
will do so within the critical time and
environmental development limits is
that it will remain cosmically undecided
up to the last second of the option's
effective actuation, knowing that
beyond that imminent moment lies only
the swift extinction of humans on planet
Earth.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:10:33 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      29-OCT-1998  9:10
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 hey, Dwelling Machines Design and Trade Show, is good
 --aren't you the 3M guy (the time-wise 3M, that is) ??-- but
 Bucky was completely ignorant of the purpose of a nation-state,
 as he was under the sway of the so-called Transcendentalists,
 his Aunt Margaret F.Ossoli, in particular (her Prince,
 I think, was associated with Teddy Roosevelt's "gunboat diplomatic"
 abrogation of the Monroe Doctrine, vis-a-vu the "liberation"
 of Cuba and the Spanish-American War, but I could be totally wrong
 about that .-)
    anyway, the following is the kernel
 of Bus\cky's supranationalist fervor, however taken;
 thus quoth:
  History's unprecedentedly large and
  invisible supranational Grunch of Giants
  being too supra- and infra-visibly large
  to be sensitively comprehended, it is
  difficult to surmise and accredit that
  the almost omni-computerized giant
  may be evolution's agent of most
  effective establishment of a
  world-embracing socioeconomic system
  most logically suited for the
  mass-production and distribution of its
  products and services to economically
  successful humanity. It could well be
  that the total-world-involved,
  supranational giant corporations'
  computer operations might, to their
  corporate directors' astonishment and
  to popular surprise, lead the Grunch into
  profitable discard of all that is not true,
  as for instance that anybody owns
  anything. Commonly acknowledged
  operational custodianship and popular
  reaccreditation of the integrated
  world-around technology management
  may supplant "ownership" with Hertz
  and telephone-renting.

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:45:32 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Venting protocals
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy Mark Somers  --

Up until now i had respected you -- from your posts, you appeared to be a
rational and competent human.  Expertise on Tesla is certainly a good thing,
and i am glad you have some of his work available.  Have you built anything
from it?

The kind of slander and insult demonstrated in this post has no place on the
Geodesic list.  Unless i see something more rational from you within the
next seven days, i will automatically delete all further posts from you.

I trust you have only had a bad day, and this is not typical of your usual
demeanor.  And i hope sometime you get to visit Wyoming and see what it's
really like.  After all, stupid murderers and fascists exist everywhere in
pretty much the same proportion to the general population. In fact in most
places, when a crime like the recently publicized one in Wyoming is
committed, the perpetrators are often never brought to justice.  That will
not be the case here -- the two murderers have been caught and will pay for
their crime.   I could say a lot more, but i'm actually interested in
sticking to the purpose of this list, which as i understand it has something
to do with improving conditions on this planet.

At 12:49 PM 10/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Nice description of fascism, Mr Riversong. But I guess when the inbreeds in
Wyoming aren't busying themselves with linching gays they're working on
re-establishing the third reich.
>
>And why is it everytime some loony builds some super duper antigravity
machine they just can't seem to reproduce the results to quell the skeptics.
But boy oh boy they sure can produce plenty of, after the fact, eye witness
testimony.
>
>Regarding Tesla: I've got tons of his work, his actual work, not the shit
others claim to be his work. And he was an inventor not some god or alien.
Just read his own notes etc. Fuck no wonder when I was watching recently a
kid show they had said Marconi brought about wireless transmission and not
Tesla.
>
>
-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist
Author of <Design Ecology: Creating Healthy Living Environments>
MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:57:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Mark Somers <msomers@WTP.NET>
Subject:      This thread needs an enema
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE034C.7E574940"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE034C.7E574940
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First off, Mr Riversong, you're way the fuck out of line telling me or =
anyone for that matter what he or she can say anywhere. But then I'm not =
entirely surprised to hear that. Freedom of speech is OK. Just don't do =
it around me is the war cry in places like Arizona Montana and Wyoming =
etc etc etc.

Second some of the most heinus crimes have been committed in this area =
of the US. Hate based ones especially. I'm originally from Tucson where =
most crime was drug and money oriented, especially the real blood baths. =
Killing for money is very corporate of them. But not here. All the real =
sick murders here have been idialogicly motivated.=20

Third in a way these crimes are against children. This place is full of =
religious foundamentalist. I'm talking not only the city of Billings =
that I reside in now but of the whole north to mid west, included your =
beloved Wyoming. Open your eyes Mr. Riversong. There are those that =
believe very strongly that blacks, Indian, and women have no place in =
society, but as servants. And gays should be dead. This place is full of =
hate for life. This place is full of idiots. There's so much anti Indian =
rhetoric around here it's makes me ill.=20


Self rightgous bible thumping crap is what is drummed into the heads of =
the young here. =20


What I point out is appropriate if you wish to explore the =
socio-economics of Fullers work. Other wise it sounds like you and the =
others around here are elitists who's only interest is to spread the =
word of Bucky like another religion. Or some insider only club with =
secret hand shakes etc etc. I don't blame the well educated for looking =
down their noses at places like Montana or Wyoming at all. But you must =
become aware of it. I've never seen down syndrome, untill I came here. =
This place is full of people with it and if I even suggest that it might =
be do to the over use of insecticides. I'm told I'm full of shit. Even =
as the crop dusters fly overhead and anyone can smell the stuff. And =
there as been research supporting my caution.=20

I could go on and on.=20

Bottom line is ace.  For the world to work the violence that is =
perpertrated against the Palistinians etc etc and the violence that is =
perpertrated against gays etc etc and women as to stop. The poison =
placed in the minds of the young by thier religious preachers parents =
rabbis priests etc. has to stop. It is pollution of the worst kind. What =
works is the scientific method and critical thinking. Believing in =
antigravity machines because you want them to work doesn't make them =
work anymore than believing that god exist because you want him to =
exist. It's only more poison for the already poisoned masses.

P.S. I don't really give a rat's ass if you or any other other fools =
doesn't respect me. As a matter of fact I look forward to you and the =
rest of the antigravity machine folks and the religously inclined of the =
world at large to not respect me. I've even recieved e-mail from clowns =
worse than you. E-mail from Christians who have pointed out that I've =
gotten their fucking attention. Hell I'm not even a doctor performing =
abortions nor am I gay, nor am I an over weight computer geek. But I =
will tell you what I am. I am not afraid of killing to defend myself. I =
used to be afraid of having such thoughts when I was young and being =
poisoned in the catholic school I attended. And beaten on a regular =
basis by the gang that didn't exist in the eyes of the schools =
administration. But anymore If you or any of your religiously oriented =
pea brained types (That might be lurking in on this thread) want to play =
war with Mark, come to papa. I'm not hiding behind a fictious name, as a =
matter of fact anyone with a moticome of internet savy can get a map =
right to my house. I'll give you your muched loved hell on earth.=20

Love, Mark.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE034C.7E574940
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>First off, Mr Riversong, you're way =
the fuck out=20
of line telling me or anyone for that matter what he or she can say =
anywhere.=20
But then I'm not entirely surprised to hear that. Freedom of speech is =
OK. Just=20
don't do it around me is the war cry in places like Arizona Montana and =
Wyoming=20
etc etc etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Second some of the most heinus =
crimes have been=20
committed in this area of the US. Hate based ones especially. I'm =
originally=20
from Tucson where most crime was drug and money oriented, especially the =
real=20
blood baths. Killing for money is very corporate of them. But not here. =
All the=20
real sick murders here have been idialogicly motivated. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Third in a way these crimes are =
against=20
children. This place is full of religious foundamentalist. I'm talking =
not only=20
the city of Billings that I reside in now but of the whole north to mid =
west,=20
included your beloved Wyoming. Open your eyes Mr. Riversong. There are =
those=20
that believe very strongly that blacks, Indian, and women have no place =
in=20
society, but as servants. And gays should be dead. This place is full of =
hate=20
for life. This place is full of idiots. There's so much anti Indian =
rhetoric=20
around here it's makes me ill. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Self rightgous bible thumping crap =
is what is=20
drummed into the heads of the young here.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What I point out is appropriate if =
you wish to=20
explore the socio-economics of Fullers work. Other wise it sounds like =
you and=20
the others around here are elitists who's only interest is to spread the =
word of=20
Bucky like another religion. Or some insider only club with secret hand =
shakes=20
etc etc. I don't blame the well educated for looking down their noses at =
places=20
like Montana or Wyoming at all. But you must become aware of it. I've =
never seen=20
down syndrome, untill I came here. This place is full of people with it =
and if I=20
even suggest that it might be do to the over use of insecticides. I'm =
told I'm=20
full of shit. Even as the crop dusters fly overhead and anyone can smell =
the=20
stuff. And there as been research supporting my caution. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I could go on and =
on.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Bottom line is ace.&nbsp; For the =
world to work=20
the violence that is perpertrated against the Palistinians etc etc and =
the=20
violence that is perpertrated against gays etc etc and women as to stop. =
The=20
poison placed in the minds of the young by thier religious preachers =
parents=20
rabbis priests etc. has to stop. It is pollution of the worst kind. What =
works=20
is the scientific method and critical thinking. Believing in antigravity =

machines because you want them to work doesn't make them work anymore =
than=20
believing that god exist because you want him to exist. It's only more =
poison=20
for the already poisoned masses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>P.S. I don't really give a rat's ass =
if you or=20
any other other fools doesn't respect me. As a matter of fact I look =
forward to=20
you and the rest of the antigravity machine folks and the religously =
inclined of=20
the world at large to not respect me. I've even recieved e-mail from =
clowns=20
worse than you. E-mail from Christians who have pointed out that I've =
gotten=20
their fucking attention. Hell I'm not even a doctor performing abortions =
nor am=20
I gay, nor am I an over weight computer geek. But I will tell you what I =
am. I=20
am not afraid of killing to defend myself. I used to be afraid of having =
such=20
thoughts when I was young and being poisoned in the catholic school I =
attended.=20
And beaten on a regular basis by the gang that didn't exist in the eyes =
of the=20
schools administration. But anymore If you or any of your religiously =
oriented=20
pea brained types (That might be lurking in on this thread) want to play =
war=20
with Mark, come to papa. I'm not hiding behind a fictious name, as a =
matter of=20
fact anyone with a moticome of internet savy can get a map right to my =
house.=20
I'll give you your muched loved hell on earth. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Love, =
Mark.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE034C.7E574940--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:14:22 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Jasper Reed <jaspercat5@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema
Content-Type: text/plain

You go Mark!!!! Give the zealots hell!!!

>Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:57:48 -0700
>Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
>              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
>From:         Mark Somers <msomers@WTP.NET>
>Subject:      This thread needs an enema
>To:           GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>
>First off, Mr Riversong, you're way the fuck out of line telling me or
=
>anyone for that matter what he or she can say anywhere. But then I'm
not =
>entirely surprised to hear that. Freedom of speech is OK. Just don't do
=
>it around me is the war cry in places like Arizona Montana and Wyoming
=
>etc etc etc.
>
>Second some of the most heinus crimes have been committed in this area
=
>of the US. Hate based ones especially. I'm originally from Tucson where
=
>most crime was drug and money oriented, especially the real blood
baths. =
>Killing for money is very corporate of them. But not here. All the real
=
>sick murders here have been idialogicly motivated.=20
>
>Third in a way these crimes are against children. This place is full of
=
>religious foundamentalist. I'm talking not only the city of Billings =
>that I reside in now but of the whole north to mid west, included your
=
>beloved Wyoming. Open your eyes Mr. Riversong. There are those that =
>believe very strongly that blacks, Indian, and women have no place in =
>society, but as servants. And gays should be dead. This place is full
of =
>hate for life. This place is full of idiots. There's so much anti
Indian =
>rhetoric around here it's makes me ill.=20
>
>
>Self rightgous bible thumping crap is what is drummed into the heads of
=
>the young here. =20
>
>
>What I point out is appropriate if you wish to explore the =
>socio-economics of Fullers work. Other wise it sounds like you and the
=
>others around here are elitists who's only interest is to spread the =
>word of Bucky like another religion. Or some insider only club with =
>secret hand shakes etc etc. I don't blame the well educated for looking
=
>down their noses at places like Montana or Wyoming at all. But you must
=
>become aware of it. I've never seen down syndrome, untill I came here.
=
>This place is full of people with it and if I even suggest that it
might =
>be do to the over use of insecticides. I'm told I'm full of shit. Even
=
>as the crop dusters fly overhead and anyone can smell the stuff. And =
>there as been research supporting my caution.=20
>
>I could go on and on.=20
>
>Bottom line is ace.  For the world to work the violence that is =
>perpertrated against the Palistinians etc etc and the violence that is
=
>perpertrated against gays etc etc and women as to stop. The poison =
>placed in the minds of the young by thier religious preachers parents =
>rabbis priests etc. has to stop. It is pollution of the worst kind.
What =
>works is the scientific method and critical thinking. Believing in =
>antigravity machines because you want them to work doesn't make them =
>work anymore than believing that god exist because you want him to =
>exist. It's only more poison for the already poisoned masses.
>
>P.S. I don't really give a rat's ass if you or any other other fools =
>doesn't respect me. As a matter of fact I look forward to you and the =
>rest of the antigravity machine folks and the religously inclined of
the =
>world at large to not respect me. I've even recieved e-mail from clowns
=
>worse than you. E-mail from Christians who have pointed out that I've =
>gotten their fucking attention. Hell I'm not even a doctor performing =
>abortions nor am I gay, nor am I an over weight computer geek. But I =
>will tell you what I am. I am not afraid of killing to defend myself. I
=
>used to be afraid of having such thoughts when I was young and being =
>poisoned in the catholic school I attended. And beaten on a regular =
>basis by the gang that didn't exist in the eyes of the schools =
>administration. But anymore If you or any of your religiously oriented
=
>pea brained types (That might be lurking in on this thread) want to
play =
>war with Mark, come to papa. I'm not hiding behind a fictious name, as
a =
>matter of fact anyone with a moticome of internet savy can get a map =
>right to my house. I'll give you your muched loved hell on earth.=20
>
>Love, Mark.
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:59:31 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Eric Nastav <enastav@BOOKSTORE.IUPUI.EDU>
Organization: IHETS
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
In-Reply-To:  <199810281836.KAA27058@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Michael Riversong wrote:

> Good essay.  Thanks for forwarding it.  Capitalism as an economic model is
> obsolete and has been for a long time.  Like Communism, it depends on
> rewarding non-production by certain individuals.  The new model mentioned in
> this essay does not have a commonly accepted name yet -- perhaps
> "Entrepreneurialism" would fill the bill.
>
  Where can I find the essay?  Sounds interesting.

> I am personally familiar with several businesses which have created a new
> model for paying employees.  Each employee is given a statistic, and paid
> strictly according to current production.  While many people would howl
> against this sort of thing, i have noticed that it usually keeps these
> businesses viable, and creates a tremendous incentive for each employee to
> improve production in their individual area.  This particular structure is a
> harmonic small-scale development of the Entrepreneurial economic model.
>
  Ever heard of profit-sharing?  You don't need to have a new model for
paying employees to keep a business viable.  Just good management.
  In some cases the money from the production of
hardworking employees goes to give the office slugs(upper management) a
big raise. This can result in poor morale and lesser productivity.  Why
would the people who control a business sacrifice lethargy and large
salaries for a slight increase in productivity.  Sorry, I'm a skeptic at
heart.
  I'm guessing that most businesses wouldn't go for that idea.  And if
they did the incentives for the highest bracket wouldn't be all that much.
  That's not a viable strategy for all jobs.  Production in some cases
depends on demand which depends somewhat on marketing and sales.  Which
brings me to commission.  What the difference between what you are talking
about and commision?  Is it commission for production staff where
commision is usually only in sales?

> Mostly governments can h*lp businesses best by staying the heck out of our
> way.  This essay certainly communicates that idea.
>
  For the most part, yes.  As long as they hurt the environment or have
and human rights issues.

  Eric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:55:25 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      New here, HI!

IS this the Buckminster golf club set?  Hi, gentlemen !   My name is MICKEY!
I loev dome people.
4MICKEY@Prodigy.net  Lets talk?  Thank you for your time.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:21:29 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This letter pertains to the prospects of reversing the present situation where
resources are hoarded for the benefit and profit of a few (particularly
GRUNCH)
and instead held in common for the benefit of all humanity, as Buckminster
Fuller envisioned.

The purpose of the nation-state is to protect 'us from them' in a world of
scarcity where there isn't enough for everybody, and it has to be either you
or me, us or them. In a world where there is more than enough for everybody,
the nation-state looses much of it's purpose. Fuller said that governments and
politicians have an interest in maintaining scarcity in order to maintain
their power. Governments largely act to protect the interest of GRUNCH,
whether it's protecting oil interest in the Middle East or overthrowing
democratically elected governments in Latin America to control natural
resources and the interest of multinational corporations. The nation-state has
always seized the resources of others for the profit of the few. I see no
difference today in world affairs then at any other time in history. The
indigenous people all over the world are being decimated as the last remaining
parcels of virgin resources are carved up for GRUNCH. This is how ownership of
lands and resources have been gained throughout history. The land you're
sitting on was once taken by force from someone else.

Most of the world's resources have already been seized and hoarded for the
benefit of the few. How soon before this is reversed completely, and the
world's resources are released for the benefit and use of all humanity, as
Buckminster Fuller envisioned? It is not as difficult at it appears. If we can
hoard most of the world's resources for the benefit of a small fraction of the
world's elite, as has already been achieved, then it will only take a very
small reorientation to direct them to the benefit of all humanity. Hoarding is
hoarding, whether it's for one or for all, and GRUNCH has become top heavy and
is about to spin over and spill out it cornucopia for all.

'We have now scientifically and
incontrovertibly found that there is
ample to support all humanity. But
humanity and its leaders have not yet
learned so in sufficiently convincing
degree to reorient world affairs in such
a manner as to realize a sustainable
high standard of living for all.' --
Buckminster Fuller. GRUNCH of Giants

I believe that the United Nations Outer Space Treaty demonstrates that we're
not so far away from realizing Fuller's vision of holding the resources of the
Earth as the common heritage of all humanity. The signing nations of the Outer
Space Treaty have agreed that their exploration and use of outer space, the
moon and other celestial bodies shall be for the benefit of all humankind,
that no weapons of mass destruction, military bases or fortifications will be
place there, and that no sovereign nation will claim possession of any
territories in this realm. This treaty covers the entire universe outside the
bounds of Earth. To bring us closer to Buckminster Fuller's vision, we only
need to sweep this one last speck of cosmic dust, the Earth, into the
protections granted to the rest of the universe by the Outer Space Treaty. The
reality may be a little more complex, for instance we've failed to achieve a
similar treaty for the seas, and the Earth's lands are already carved up,
unlike space which was unexplored and undivided when this treaty was signed.
But on a cosmic scale, the Outer Space Treaty demonstrates that we're closer
then you think to achieving Buckminster Fuller's vision of maintaining the
resources of the Earth as the common heritage and for the common benefit of
all humankind, and not just for the benefit of a few. When we have agreed that
the entire universe outside the Earth should be maintained for the common
benefit of all nations, how much longer will it be before we give the same
consideration to the last speck of cosmic dust in the universe that remains
outside this treaty? According to Fuller, cosmic evolution hasn't given us
much more time to decide -- it's everybody or nobody!

Will humans ever give up ownership? I believe that we can expect some
significant changes in attitude.  Fuller saw a prosperous humanity becoming
world travelers, undesiring of physical possessions that will be a hindrance
to their lifestyle. People will loose interest in accumulating possessions in
a world of abundance where material possessions are so readily available.

Outer Space Treaty:
http://shuttle-mir.nasa.gov/cooperation/1967treaty.htm

Regarding ownership of lands, Buckminster Fuller states the following in the
introduction to GRUNCH of Giants.

Because of ancient arms-accomplished
seizure of land by the most physically
powerful and the subsequent
arms-induced blessing of the seizures by
power-ordained "ministers of God,"
royal deeds to land were written as
assumedly God-approved and
guaranteed covenants.
       Landlordism, first woven into the
fabric of everyday life by royal fiat and
thousands of years of legal process
precedent, has become an accepted
cosmic phenomenon as seemingly
inevitable as the weather. Humans have
learned to play many of its games.
       Land "ownership" and its
omni-dependent comprehensive
thing-ownership involvements and their
legal-documents-perpetuations
constitute the largest socioeconomic
custom error presently being
maintained by a large world
affairs-affecting segment of humanity.
       Nothing new about all that. But what is
new is that humanity has gone as far as
it can go with this significant error and
is in final examination as to whether it
can free itself from its misconditioned
reflex straightjacket in time to pull out
of its greatest-in-all-history,
error-occasioned tailspinning into
eternity.
       We do have both the knowledge and
the technical means to do so if we do it
quickly enough. That is what this book
[GRUNCH of Giants] is about.

The above excerpts are thanks to Kirby Urner's
scanning of Grunch of Giants, which is online at:
http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html

Brian Hutchings wrote:
>
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      29-OCT-1998  9:10
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  hey, Dwelling Machines Design and Trade Show, is good
>  --aren't you the 3M guy (the time-wise 3M, that is) ??-- but
>  Bucky was completely ignorant of the purpose of a nation-state,
>  as he was under the sway of the so-called Transcendentalists,
>  his Aunt Margaret F.Ossoli, in particular (her Prince,
>  I think, was associated with Teddy Roosevelt's "gunboat diplomatic"
>  abrogation of the Monroe Doctrine, vis-a-vu the "liberation"
>  of Cuba and the Spanish-American War, but I could be totally wrong
>  about that .-)
>     anyway, the following is the kernel
>  of Bus\cky's supranationalist fervor, however taken;
>  thus quoth:
>   History's unprecedentedly large and
>   invisible supranational Grunch of Giants
>   being too supra- and infra-visibly large
>   to be sensitively comprehended, it is
>   difficult to surmise and accredit that
>   the almost omni-computerized giant
>   may be evolution's agent of most
>   effective establishment of a
>   world-embracing socioeconomic system
>   most logically suited for the
>   mass-production and distribution of its
>   products and services to economically
>   successful humanity. It could well be
>   that the total-world-involved,
>   supranational giant corporations'
>   computer operations might, to their
>   corporate directors' astonishment and
>   to popular surprise, lead the Grunch into
>   profitable discard of all that is not true,
>   as for instance that anybody owns
>   anything. Commonly acknowledged
>   operational custodianship and popular
>   reaccreditation of the integrated
>   world-around technology management
>   may supplant "ownership" with Hertz
>   and telephone-renting.
>
>  --The End Was Nigh!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:49:48 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         hal mc whinnie <halchaos4@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE03E2.3FFD2700"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE03E2.3FFD2700
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

maybe it is time to think the unthinkable and propose that this country =
is no longer a viable unit, we might propose division into three =
sections, the states west of the mississippi would become one country =
shince they seem to share what those who live on the east coast do not, =
hate and anger.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mark Somers <msomers@WTP.NET>
    Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
    To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU =
<GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
    Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:39 PM
    Subject: This thread needs an enema
   =20
   =20
    First off, Mr Riversong, you're way the fuck out of line telling me =
or anyone for that matter what he or she can say anywhere. But then I'm =
not entirely surprised to hear that. Freedom of speech is OK. Just don't =
do it around me is the war cry in places like Arizona Montana and =
Wyoming etc etc etc.
    =20
    Second some of the most heinus crimes have been committed in this =
area of the US. Hate based ones especially. I'm originally from Tucson =
where most crime was drug and money oriented, especially the real blood =
baths. Killing for money is very corporate of them. But not here. All =
the real sick murders here have been idialogicly motivated.=20
    =20
    Third in a way these crimes are against children. This place is full =
of religious foundamentalist. I'm talking not only the city of Billings =
that I reside in now but of the whole north to mid west, included your =
beloved Wyoming. Open your eyes Mr. Riversong. There are those that =
believe very strongly that blacks, Indian, and women have no place in =
society, but as servants. And gays should be dead. This place is full of =
hate for life. This place is full of idiots. There's so much anti Indian =
rhetoric around here it's makes me ill.=20
    =20
    =20
    Self rightgous bible thumping crap is what is drummed into the heads =
of the young here. =20
   =20
    =20
    What I point out is appropriate if you wish to explore the =
socio-economics of Fullers work. Other wise it sounds like you and the =
others around here are elitists who's only interest is to spread the =
word of Bucky like another religion. Or some insider only club with =
secret hand shakes etc etc. I don't blame the well educated for looking =
down their noses at places like Montana or Wyoming at all. But you must =
become aware of it. I've never seen down syndrome, untill I came here. =
This place is full of people with it and if I even suggest that it might =
be do to the over use of insecticides. I'm told I'm full of shit. Even =
as the crop dusters fly overhead and anyone can smell the stuff. And =
there as been research supporting my caution.=20
    =20
    I could go on and on.=20
    =20
    Bottom line is ace.  For the world to work the violence that is =
perpertrated against the Palistinians etc etc and the violence that is =
perpertrated against gays etc etc and women as to stop. The poison =
placed in the minds of the young by thier religious preachers parents =
rabbis priests etc. has to stop. It is pollution of the worst kind. What =
works is the scientific method and critical thinking. Believing in =
antigravity machines because you want them to work doesn't make them =
work anymore than believing that god exist because you want him to =
exist. It's only more poison for the already poisoned masses.
    =20
    P.S. I don't really give a rat's ass if you or any other other fools =
doesn't respect me. As a matter of fact I look forward to you and the =
rest of the antigravity machine folks and the religously inclined of the =
world at large to not respect me. I've even recieved e-mail from clowns =
worse than you. E-mail from Christians who have pointed out that I've =
gotten their fucking attention. Hell I'm not even a doctor performing =
abortions nor am I gay, nor am I an over weight computer geek. But I =
will tell you what I am. I am not afraid of killing to defend myself. I =
used to be afraid of having such thoughts when I was young and being =
poisoned in the catholic school I attended. And beaten on a regular =
basis by the gang that didn't exist in the eyes of the schools =
administration. But anymore If you or any of your religiously oriented =
pea brained types (That might be lurking in on this thread) want to play =
war with Mark, come to papa. I'm not hiding behind a fictious name, as a =
matter of fact anyone with a moticome of internet savy can get a map =
right to my house. I'll give you your muched loved hell on earth.=20
    =20
    Love, Mark.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE03E2.3FFD2700
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>maybe it is time to think the =
unthinkable and=20
propose that this country is no longer a viable unit, we might propose =
division=20
into three sections, the states west of the mississippi would become one =
country=20
shince they seem to share what those who live on the east coast do not, =
hate and=20
anger.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Mark Somers &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:msomers@WTP.NET">msomers@WTP.NET</A>&gt;<BR><B>Newsgroups:=
=20
    </B>bit.listserv.geodesic<BR><B>To: </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:39 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>This =
thread needs=20
    an enema<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>First off, Mr Riversong, you're =
way the fuck=20
    out of line telling me or anyone for that matter what he or she can =
say=20
    anywhere. But then I'm not entirely surprised to hear that. Freedom =
of=20
    speech is OK. Just don't do it around me is the war cry in places =
like=20
    Arizona Montana and Wyoming etc etc etc.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Second some of the most heinus =
crimes have=20
    been committed in this area of the US. Hate based ones especially. =
I'm=20
    originally from Tucson where most crime was drug and money oriented, =

    especially the real blood baths. Killing for money is very corporate =
of=20
    them. But not here. All the real sick murders here have been =
idialogicly=20
    motivated. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Third in a way these crimes are =
against=20
    children. This place is full of religious foundamentalist. I'm =
talking not=20
    only the city of Billings that I reside in now but of the whole =
north to mid=20
    west, included your beloved Wyoming. Open your eyes Mr. Riversong. =
There are=20
    those that believe very strongly that blacks, Indian, and women have =
no=20
    place in society, but as servants. And gays should be dead. This =
place is=20
    full of hate for life. This place is full of idiots. There's so much =
anti=20
    Indian rhetoric around here it's makes me ill. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Self rightgous bible thumping =
crap is what=20
    is drummed into the heads of the young here.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What I point out is appropriate =
if you wish=20
    to explore the socio-economics of Fullers work. Other wise it sounds =
like=20
    you and the others around here are elitists who's only interest is =
to spread=20
    the word of Bucky like another religion. Or some insider only club =
with=20
    secret hand shakes etc etc. I don't blame the well educated for =
looking down=20
    their noses at places like Montana or Wyoming at all. But you must =
become=20
    aware of it. I've never seen down syndrome, untill I came here. This =
place=20
    is full of people with it and if I even suggest that it might be do =
to the=20
    over use of insecticides. I'm told I'm full of shit. Even as the =
crop=20
    dusters fly overhead and anyone can smell the stuff. And there as =
been=20
    research supporting my caution. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I could go on and =
on.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Bottom line is ace.&nbsp; For =
the world to=20
    work the violence that is perpertrated against the Palistinians etc =
etc and=20
    the violence that is perpertrated against gays etc etc and women as =
to stop.=20
    The poison placed in the minds of the young by thier religious =
preachers=20
    parents rabbis priests etc. has to stop. It is pollution of the =
worst kind.=20
    What works is the scientific method and critical thinking. Believing =
in=20
    antigravity machines because you want them to work doesn't make them =
work=20
    anymore than believing that god exist because you want him to exist. =
It's=20
    only more poison for the already poisoned masses.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>P.S. I don't really give a rat's =
ass if you=20
    or any other other fools doesn't respect me. As a matter of fact I =
look=20
    forward to you and the rest of the antigravity machine folks and the =

    religously inclined of the world at large to not respect me. I've =
even=20
    recieved e-mail from clowns worse than you. E-mail from Christians =
who have=20
    pointed out that I've gotten their fucking attention. Hell I'm not =
even a=20
    doctor performing abortions nor am I gay, nor am I an over weight =
computer=20
    geek. But I will tell you what I am. I am not afraid of killing to =
defend=20
    myself. I used to be afraid of having such thoughts when I was young =
and=20
    being poisoned in the catholic school I attended. And beaten on a =
regular=20
    basis by the gang that didn't exist in the eyes of the schools=20
    administration. But anymore If you or any of your religiously =
oriented pea=20
    brained types (That might be lurking in on this thread) want to play =
war=20
    with Mark, come to papa. I'm not hiding behind a fictious name, as a =
matter=20
    of fact anyone with a moticome of internet savy can get a map right =
to my=20
    house. I'll give you your muched loved hell on earth. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Love,=20
Mark.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE03E2.3FFD2700--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:14:09 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         kdaniel <kdaniel@ARCHES.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello All,

Am I on the wrong list???  I thought this list was about Dome houses and
other alternative types of homes.

If this list is about people cussing people out about expressing their
opinion, then I would like to unsubscribe.

Looking for alternative homes in Georgia,
Kimbra
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:32:31 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
In-Reply-To:  <36399327.FA5CBFA4@SpaceshipEarth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Spaceship Earth wrote:

> Will humans ever give up ownership?

This is happening with digital information, with the free software movement[1]
who are subverting the idea of "intellectual property."

But what about physical property? I don't see an overall attitude change in
ownership, especially with land.

One interesting idea is eBay[2] -- anyone can buy or sell anything over the
Internet to the highest bidder; its popularity has been increasing and I can
see a day maybe 5 years from now when just about anyone who uses a computer
buys what they need and sells all their junk via eBay.

(But if/when that happens, it will also change the current eBay dynamics --
right now, people can make a living buying junk at estate sales, etc., and
sell them for 500%+ profit; when everyone is selling their stuff, what will
these people do to sustain themselves? I think it will make things harder
for dealers of collectibles -- there'll be less garage-sale bargains when
more people list their stuff on the computer.)


> Regarding ownership of lands, Buckminster Fuller states the following in the
> introduction to GRUNCH of Giants.
...
>        Land "ownership" and its
> omni-dependent comprehensive
> thing-ownership involvements and their
> legal-documents-perpetuations
> constitute the largest socioeconomic
> custom error presently being
> maintained by a large world
...
> Nothing new about all that. But what is
> new is that humanity has gone as far as
> it can go with this significant error and
> is in final examination as to whether it
> can free itself from its misconditioned
> reflex straightjacket in time to pull out
> of its greatest-in-all-history,
> error-occasioned tailspinning into
> eternity.

The question is, _how_ to free itself? I think the largest
crime-against-humanity of our age is the corporations' quest for profit at
any expense. It seems to have accelerated in recent years -- the
ever-decreasing quality of goods, including housing (will today's $250,000
new suburban home last as long as one built in 1945? How much has the
quality diminished?). Are there any guidelines for altering this course?
Kunstler's books (_Home from Nowhere_ etc.) give a good outline of the
suburban sprawl problem, where banks "own" the land and destroy the
resources and habitats for life, but give little solution. I think the
answer is design science -- not hippie-protesting, not punk-apathy, not
Earth First!-monkeywrenching, and certainly not abhorrent Unabomber-violence
-- but it's not clear to me what exactly can stop overdevelopment, urban
spral, etc. Portland, Oregon might have found an answer (Kirby?) with their
70s legal doctrines against overdevelopment...


1. http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/9966.html
2. http://www.ebay.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:36:37 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
  To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.bufallo.edu
  Subject: Re: GRUNCH and real wealth


  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:15
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   uh-oh, I'm confusing mister Space Ship E with mister Millennial Fervor;
   am I?...  anyway,
   that's *tres evocatif* with the Space Treaty, although
   it begs the question, Why do we not have a Space Program,
   to connect the (allegedly planetary) dots?
      furthermore, perhaps based upon the notion that
   we will not be *allowed* to try (you know what happenned,
   to mister JFK), you do not mention *any* thing that is permitted,
   aside from telescopy!

   --The End Was Nigh!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm

  --MAA29121.909778557/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:41:09 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@GTE.NET>
Organization: gte.net
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema

In article <3639BBA0.A9665AC5@arches.uga.edu>, kdaniel
<kdaniel@ARCHES.UGA.EDU> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Am I on the wrong list???  I thought this list was about Dome houses and
> other alternative types of homes.
>
> If this list is about people cussing people out about expressing their
> opinion, then I would like to unsubscribe.
>
> Looking for alternative homes in Georgia,
> Kimbra

You will be easily chased away by psychological warfare guerrillas from
almost every news group.

   Cliff Nelson
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:42:53 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      Ideas how to guide a 10 mile floating city?

Protocall: Michael Mitchell
Say you have a ten mile sphere, of wire glass on light oil based plastic
compression, fly eye like surface, and it has solar heated, temperature
control by shuting and opening the shades to keep it's altitude.  It is
going beans to breakfast around the earth in the jet stream, say' , then how
can you stear it? and how can you stop it and load it, how can you change
altitude? = a run away city!  the inside is vacant, and the living area is
in the skin itself as RBF has imagined.  How can you make the bottom stay at
the bottom for storage of livingry provisions for say 5,000 people to live
off of while in the air.  How do you keep the airbrathable and warm enough
to stay alive that high? Etc.
4Mickey@prodigy.net  Where do you get on and off it, with waste and enimas.
Would it fly higher than birds?
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:33:17 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Mike Sabo <mes2693@GARNET.ACNS.FSU.EDU>
Organization: Florida State University
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth (inc. sci.space.policy)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Note cross-post to relevant newsgroup sci.space.policy

Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:36
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>   To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.bufallo.edu
>   Subject: Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
>
>   <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:15
>                    r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>    uh-oh, I'm confusing mister Space Ship E with mister Millennial Fervor;
>    am I?...  anyway,
>    that's *tres evocatif* with the Space Treaty, although
>    it begs the question, Why do we not have a Space Program,
>    to connect the (allegedly planetary) dots?

If we buy into Fuller's GRUNCH, then IMHO this is easily explained. The U.N.
Space Treaty makes it extremely difficult to establish ownership of
extra-terrestrial resources. With ownership comes the capability of being
traded for profit.

To paraphrase Heinlein, if you get to LEO your halfway to anywhere in the
universe. The companies involved in commercial launch are definately part of
GRUNCH. As such they are only interested in developing space to the extent
that they can profit. Hence we have Direct TV, GPS, Remote Sensing, etc.
These are areas which generate revenues here on earth and are not subject to
the treaty, therefore they benefit GRUNCH and have been well developed over
the past three decades.

Further expansion into space would not be nearly as profitable for GRUNCH
because of the restrictions of the Treaty. Since there are no amateur groups
capable getting payload to LEO, the commercial launch industries of GRUNCH
guard access to the high frontier. Getting to LEO is comparable to crossing
the Atlantic 500 years ago. All of the seagoing vessels were owned by the
kings and trading companies (GRUNCH). If the same restriction were placed on
the New World then that the Treaty places on space, then there would have
been far less incentive to cross the ocean.

This, IMHO, is whymanned exploration has trickled to a stop with no
foreseeable restart.

>       furthermore, perhaps based upon the notion that
>    we will not be *allowed* to try (you know what happenned,
>    to mister JFK), you do not mention *any* thing that is permitted,
>    aside from telescopy!
>
>    --The End Was Nigh!
>    http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
>
>   --MAA29121.909778557/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:20:59 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dear Mr. Moore , old friend?
Comments: To: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@prodigy.net>
In-Reply-To:  <000a01be02bb$0c6d9280$a35f9cd1@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE043A.6D235940"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE043A.6D235940
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael,

I think you are confusing me with Don Moore.  Unfortunately, I have never
made it to Edwardsville, IL, or Carbondale, IL.  The only info I have about
Donald Moore is two references:

Buckminster Fuller: At Home in the Universe, pages 210 and 272-4
("NonSymmerical Tensegrity" Dome).
Ideas & Integrities, page 96-I ("Dog-Bone" dome).


Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael S Mitchell [mailto:4MICKEY@prodigy.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 1:37 PM
    To: joemoore@cruzio.com
    Subject: Dear Mr. Moore , old friend?


    My name is Michael Mitchell and I was once in Edwardsville with you and
RBF, I think I am not sure?  I own Bucky's Dome in Carbondale and just had
some trees removed.  I wondered what happened to you?  Good luck and you
were very warm and healthy to meet.  Thank you .   When I was a nobody you
treated me like somebody with an open mind.
    Michael Mitchell 1300 Tahiti Way, Boat Box # 37, marina Del Rey, CA.
90292.  310 306-1913.  4MICKEY@prodigy.net

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE043A.6D235940
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3510.1400"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Michael,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I=20
think you are confusing me with Don Moore.&nbsp; Unfortunately, I have =
never=20
made it to Edwardsville, IL, or Carbondale, IL.&nbsp; The only info I =
have about=20
Donald Moore is two references:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2><U>Buckminster Fuller: At Home in the Universe</U>, pages 210 =
and 272-4=20
(&quot;NonSymmerical Tensegrity&quot; Dome).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D470000503-31101998><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><U>Ideas &amp; Integrities</U>, page 96-I=20
(&quot;Dog-Bone&quot; dome).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><B><FONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial>Joe S Moore</FONT></B> =
<BR><B><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A>=20
</FONT></B><BR><B><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DArial>Buckminster Fuller =
Virtual=20
Institute</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A></FONT></B> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Michael S =
Mitchell=20
    [mailto:4MICKEY@prodigy.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 28, =
1998=20
    1:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> joemoore@cruzio.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Dear =
Mr. Moore=20
    , old friend?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My name is Michael Mitchell and =
I was once=20
    in Edwardsville with you and RBF, I think I am not sure?&nbsp; I own =
Bucky's=20
    Dome in Carbondale and just had some trees removed.&nbsp; I wondered =
what=20
    happened to you?&nbsp; Good luck and you were very warm and healthy =
to=20
    meet.&nbsp; Thank you .&nbsp;&nbsp; When I was a nobody you treated =
me like=20
    somebody with an open mind. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Michael Mitchell 1300 Tahiti =
Way, Boat Box #=20
    37, marina Del Rey, CA. 90292.&nbsp; 310 306-1913.&nbsp;=20
    4MICKEY@prodigy.net</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE043A.6D235940--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:45:29 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema
In-Reply-To:  <3639BBA0.A9665AC5@arches.uga.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE043D.D93507C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE043D.D93507C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kimbra,

You might try looking in my website under Links/Shelter/Domes/Dome
Manufacturers/

Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of kdaniel
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 5:14 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: This thread needs an enema
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Am I on the wrong list???  I thought this list was about Dome houses and
> other alternative types of homes.
>
> If this list is about people cussing people out about expressing their
> opinion, then I would like to unsubscribe.
>
> Looking for alternative homes in Georgia,
> Kimbra
>


------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE043D.D93507C0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3510.1400"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Kimbra,<BR><BR>You might try looking in my website =
under <FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>Links/Shelter/Domes/Dome =
Manufacturers/</FONT><BR><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000><STRONG>Joe S Moore</FONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute</FONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A></STRONG><BR><BR><BR>=
&gt;=20
-----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: List for the discussion of =
Buckminster=20
Fuller's works<BR>&gt; [<A =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
target=3D_blank>mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU</A>]On Behalf =
Of=20
kdaniel<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 5:14 AM<BR>&gt; To:=20
GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: This thread =
needs an=20
enema<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hello All,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Am I on the =
wrong=20
list???&nbsp; I thought this list was about Dome houses and<BR>&gt; =
other=20
alternative types of homes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If this list is about people =
cussing=20
people out about expressing their<BR>&gt; opinion, then I would like to=20
unsubscribe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Looking for alternative homes in =
Georgia,<BR>&gt;=20
Kimbra<BR>&gt; </FONT></P></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE043D.D93507C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 04:45:31 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      Admire Mr. Somers

4Mickey Here:  ( Michael Mitchell ), I admire a man that wares free speech
on his sleeve.  A lot of people hit the ground defending it but more died
because it wasn't there.  Bucky was shuned for it, untill the youth pushed
him into the face of the latter.  I remeber when SIU kicked him out and
would not pay his rent because he talked to much in 1972.  Only the Whaco's
will talk they say.  I think they  should have Whaco's on each news cast.
One right and one left and one Whaco say his mind.  I would bet on the Whaco
most the time for bring joy and less harm to this world.  If you live in a
floating city you would not have to put out with this local news crap and
citizen paid off development scams like here in Marina Del Rey.  The bloody
county commissioners are giving away the government vault to what they call
privitization.  If the county makes money off something already like a
loading ramp for boats, they sell it to their friends and privitise it so
the money goes to the new hot developers.  Bucky is how to make the whole
not fragment into greed.  How to talk about it and not go to gail or have
someone stop you for manners or race our class, or selfishness.  So I like
this talk group very much already and it is my second day on it.  I will try
to shut out now! I can't write any way.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:35:03 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH and real wealth (inc. sci.space.policy)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike:

There is a well funded commercial space venture, led by well know business
entrepreneurs, that is seeking to mine asteroids, and there are
probably other commercial space enterprises underway. I can't provide any
references, but I read this in a major science magazine. It said that they
interpret the Space Treaty to apply to nations and not to businesses, and it
is worded that way in most regards. The Space Treaty is applicable to the
deployment of communications satellites, and any other development of space.
Certainly, communications satellites are beneficial to all humankind, even
though everybody doesn't have Direct PC. I'm reminded of the image of a
satellite dish next to a thatched hut.

Brian Hutchings message where he states  'uh-oh, I'm confusing mister Space
Ship E with mister Millennial Fervor; am I?' never made it into my in-box.
(Lord! I hope I don't miss any more of Brian's messages!) I would find it
regrettable if I led anyone to believe that I have millennium fever. I'm too
cool headed for that. But, as I said, I do have complete success for all
humanity fever. I'm board with the Y2K bug. But I know of a computer programer
that is moving to Ecuador to escape from the problems he believes will result
from the bug. I'm just not impressed. I have more faith in human ingenuity
then this. I don't think they'll fix it, but I do think they'll patch it
enough to prevent the collapse of civilization. But I think the bug is a
relevant statement on the lack of foresight humanity has, and it fits right in
with millennium fever. The statement I made about, 'It's time to unleash the
Millennial Design Science Revolution and beat the Horsemen of the Apocalypse
to the Millennial Pass,' and any other such statements, were meant to be
metaphoric, and not literal. But Buckminster Fuller was adamant in his
statements that, if humanity does not stabilize the human condition and
provide the life-support needs of all humanity by the end of the millennium,
humans were slated by cosmic evolution to become extinct. Maybe he just had
millennium fever. I wouldn't worry about it, would you? We're all going to die
anyway. I see the millennium thing as just a passing fancy. But Buckminster
Fuller was into following the cultural trends of humanity and capitalizing
upon them. And right now millennium 'fever' is one of the best cultural trends
the Design Science Revolution has to capitalize upon, and obviously,
Buckminster Fuller saw it this way too. So get with the program! It only comes
around once every thousand years. It's time to reflect on the past and take
stock of the future. Everybody is doing it, but few people see it the way we
do. Achieving complete physical success for all humanity has nothing to do
with the millennium, but the timing is right.

Sincerely,
Spaceship Earth
mail@SpaceshipEarth.com

Mike Sabo wrote:
>
> Note cross-post to relevant newsgroup sci.space.policy
>
> Brian Hutchings wrote:
>
> > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:36
> >                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
> >   To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.bufallo.edu
> >   Subject: Re: GRUNCH and real wealth
> >
> >   <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-OCT-1998 12:15
> >                    r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
> >
> >    uh-oh, I'm confusing mister Space Ship E with mister Millennial Fervor;
> >    am I?...  anyway,
> >    that's *tres evocatif* with the Space Treaty, although
> >    it begs the question, Why do we not have a Space Program,
> >    to connect the (allegedly planetary) dots?
>
> If we buy into Fuller's GRUNCH, then IMHO this is easily explained. The U.N.
> Space Treaty makes it extremely difficult to establish ownership of
> extra-terrestrial resources. With ownership comes the capability of being
> traded for profit.
>
> To paraphrase Heinlein, if you get to LEO your halfway to anywhere in the
> universe. The companies involved in commercial launch are definately part of
> GRUNCH. As such they are only interested in developing space to the extent
> that they can profit. Hence we have Direct TV, GPS, Remote Sensing, etc.
> These are areas which generate revenues here on earth and are not subject to
> the treaty, therefore they benefit GRUNCH and have been well developed over
> the past three decades.
>
> Further expansion into space would not be nearly as profitable for GRUNCH
> because of the restrictions of the Treaty. Since there are no amateur groups
> capable getting payload to LEO, the commercial launch industries of GRUNCH
> guard access to the high frontier. Getting to LEO is comparable to crossing
> the Atlantic 500 years ago. All of the seagoing vessels were owned by the
> kings and trading companies (GRUNCH). If the same restriction were placed on
> the New World then that the Treaty places on space, then there would have
> been far less incentive to cross the ocean.
>
> This, IMHO, is whymanned exploration has trickled to a stop with no
> foreseeable restart.
>
> >       furthermore, perhaps based upon the notion that
> >    we will not be *allowed* to try (you know what happenned,
> >    to mister JFK), you do not mention *any* thing that is permitted,
> >    aside from telescopy!
> >
> >    --The End Was Nigh!
> >    http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
> >
> >   --MAA29121.909778557/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:50:49 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      We are not so great apes.

We are a specie at war on the Malthusian and Darwinian plain or sphere here
like Mark points out.  The acts of peoples in the past show nothing but
blood baths and selfishness.  Wilth R Bucky F we have an out.  A game plan.
This Little group here is the start of the remodeling of a specie.  If we
like or not.  The key is in my mind to stay ahead by design.  A floating
city is one idea.  A floating nation.  A floating idea to make the changes
better than the past and leave them all wondering why what they have is no
longer wanted by the youth.  I personally think that the best home is a
cruising boat.  It has 3/4 the area to survuve of the planet and if you
study Lin and Larry Pardey you will find it very easy to do compared to all
the other models of living on this planet.  Wood boats are best just as wood
domes are best.  The trees are solar energy and reproduce contrary to Jay
Baldwin.  West Systems will now cure rot easy.  --- I think the best dome is
a boat.  The house of the future is a boat, a flaoting boat.  I live on a
boat now.  It is much less trouble no government activity to amount to much
and quite wonderful in all.  If you live on a boat you learn that all
movement is angle and frequency, in the fog just as synergetics is.  I would
teach math by starting with number only multiclication by division only and
then go into the volumes caused by them.  you can think about anythings with
that what ever you name them.  ideas;;;;;;;;;= designs.  Once I was with RBF
at the mensa lecture and the head lady of mensa introduced him as ( There
are many Baboons, but there is only one rainbow Baboon, let me introduce
Buckminster Fuller. ) I am writting to much and this is my third day to have
a computer of my own on the net.  So if I am out of line, FQU.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:41:45 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas how to guide a 10 mile floating city?
Comments: To: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <71dfev$14pg$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Michael S Mitchell wrote:
> Say you have a ten mile sphere, of wire glass on light oil based plastic
> compression, fly eye like surface, and it has solar heated, temperature
> control by shuting and opening the shades to keep it's altitude.  It is
> going beans to breakfast around the earth in the jet stream, say' , then how
> can you stear it?

A self-sustaining city (ala Biosphere) wouldn't need "stearing" any more
than spaceship earth does: it goes where it goes and still seems to work
just fine.  Imagining a self-sustaining 10 mile sphere is as easy as
imagining a 10 mile sphere requiring refueling, etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:28:04 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com
Subject:      Re: We are not so great apes.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael S Mitchell wrote:
>
>Wood boats are best just as wood domes are best.

What about ferro-cement domes and boats? I don't think much about wood for
housing. It catches fire easily. It's subject to termites, water damage and
rot. It isn't as strong or as durable as metal. And it's not as recyclable as metals.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:16:37 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You're ok, just a couple folks are a bit ticked off about something.  Hang
in there, these little things always fizzle out eventually.

I am wondering if anyone is interested in the real story about what happened
in Wyoming, just a few miles from where i live.

Buckminster Fuller declared, at the beginning of "Grunch of Giants", that he
was apolitical.  He followed that precept very well throughout the course of
his work, and thus can serve as a good example for all of us here on this
list, at this time.

As for religion, Fuller had an ongoing essay called "Ever Rethinking the
Lord's Prayer" which i found to be a great influence.  I find myself
constantly recommending that, especially to my less tolerant neighbors.
There's a version of the essay in, i belive, "Critical Path".

At 08:14 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>Am I on the wrong list???  I thought this list was about Dome houses and
>other alternative types of homes.
>
>If this list is about people cussing people out about expressing their
>opinion, then I would like to unsubscribe.
>
>Looking for alternative homes in Georgia,
>Kimbra
>
>
-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist
Author of <Design Ecology: Creating Healthy Living Environments>
MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:44:04 -0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      Rebound state of mind 4MICKEY

A floating city needs steering for many reasons if you want yours to just
fly around and not go where you want it I think your in a lot of trouble.
Wood is the greatest Space age fiber ever invented or discovered.  Cement
will not float and is harder to work with than wood.  I agree that wood is
not fire proof.  It may be made to be? Read Lin and Larry Pardey about the
concept that new is not always best as far as materials go.  A solar
material like wood is very hard to beat.  I have a wood dome and have done
virtualy nothing to it for 25 years and it is in good shape still making
high rent for me.  If it needs any rot damage or termites I spray them
before they get going or use West Systems or get rot like on boats.  The
reason many wooden boats are becoming refurbished and wanted in the market
is they can be worked on easier than figerglass with West Systems.  A wooden
dome in California is not so great an idea with the fire storms I agree.
They need to be protected by a cement wall around them and dug into the
ground as much as possible from the Santa Anna Winds that bring the fires on
fast.  But any where else they are cheapest to get the 4X8 ply wood panels
at 20 dollars a sheet and make 60 sheets that is 1200 dollars and you have
60 triangles with 7foot 11 and 1/2 inches as the longest side of the two
triangels that are in the Bucky Ball dome like the one I have this is say 60
times 3 sides of 2x4's at appro. 8 feet long this is 1440 feet of two by
fours and the rest is the center angel cuts and the T's in the triangels are
another 60 x 8' of 2x4's this would 1,920 feet of two by fours at 4 dollars
each.  The rest of the dome is just cuting the 4x8's fron corner to corner
with the cords factor for the 6 pentagons and the rest are Hexagons.  Try to
do this with cement and you have to tool in a lot more.  You can always run
from a fire with insurance.  In a boat fire is basicly your own fault.  My
floating city needs steering kid, just as my boat needs steering.  If there
is a fire I just move it. I think this idea of making a steal dome comes
from Jay Baldwin because his pillow domes are made of steal and as much as I
like J.B. I think that people sometimes think that leaders know everything
and some times the leaders start to think so as well.  J.B. is not going to
say wood is good when his dome is metal and plastic.  I think Fuller's wood
dome is better unless you have been smoking to much dope.  I do not see
anyone recycling their own metal except to make ballast for Larry Pardeys
keels.  Try and recycle plastic yourself.  Wood is the space age material
for the individual dome maker along with West Systems.
I could see jet engines on a 10 mile floating city for docking.  No matter
how well you make it,. it rusts and needs work on it just as a boat has to
go to the yard some times.  How can you dock it, bring it to the ground like
the good year blimp. etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:42:58 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Ideas how to guide a 10 mile floating city?

MESSAGE from ="List 31-OCT-1998 11:32
 Protocall: Michael Mitchell
 Say you have a ten mile sphere, of wire glass on light oil based plastic
 compression, fly eye like surface, and it has solar heated, temperature
 control by shuting and opening the shades to keep it's altitude.  It is
 going beans to breakfast around the earth in the jet stream, say' , then how
 can you stear it? and how can you stop it and load it, how can you change
 altitude? = a run away city!  the inside is vacant, and the living area is
 in the skin itself as RBF has imagined.  How can you make the bottom stay at
 the bottom for storage of livingry provisions for say 5,000 people to live
 off of while in the air.  How do you keep the airbrathable and warm enough
 to stay alive that high? Etc.
 4Mickey@prodigy.net  Where do you get on and off it, with waste and enimas.
 Would it fly higher than birds?
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      31-OCT-1998 11:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, Tibetan Sherpas can live in it -- and llamas!...
 keep the water in the bottom, that'll right it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:59:03 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: This thread needs an enema (me, 2000 .-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      31-OCT-1998 11:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Bucky had his head pounded on by some radical ex-Tories,
 the Transcendentalists; you can like a curmudgeon likeEmerson (et al,
 including Bucky's Aunt Margaret Ossoli), without catering
 to their *malthusismos* line; thank you.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:46:28 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Don Moore
Comments: To: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@prodigy.net>
In-Reply-To:  <001501be0450$b2063a80$ce5f9cd1@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0507.269EBDC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0507.269EBDC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael,

Sorry, don't know where he is or if he is still alive.  I'm posting this
reply to the Geodesic newsletter in the hope that there is someone who may
know.  (FYI, any posts to the Geodesic newsletter [about 200 people] are
automatically also forwarded to the Geodesic newsgroup [about 8,000
readers])

Take a look in the Links/People/ section of my website; there may be some
info of use to you.

Welcome aboard!  (Now you might start planning to have your own web pages.)
I'm now getting about 1,000 "impressions" per month.

PS: See Selected Ideas/Icosahedra/Dome Houseboat/

Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael S Mitchell [mailto:4MICKEY@prodigy.net]
    Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 2:00 PM
    To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
    Subject: Don Moore


    Yes, You are right! It was Don Moore with the popout tensegrity.  Sorry
I went that direction.  Is Don still alive?    Where is he?  I once flew
with Bucky from Portland Maine or Mount Holyoak college, Bodin, kenyon? or
some where like that to Chicago for a meeting and Don met us at the airport
as we went off to Toni Huston's Hotel for dinner.  Then We met at
Edwadsville a while latter together from Carbondale about the time Bucky
renewed his last drivers license.  I remember him being so happy he made his
drivers test.  He was about 73 or so.  Don Moore took me to his University
office and said, " here this is your office any time you want to use it.
What a guy! I am sure you are just as brave a person to be friends with
people and I hope we can do the same in co-operation for the goals of true
happiness for humanity while we are on earth and beyond.  How does that
sound? If I can help in any way about RBF let me know! I worked very close
with him for many years, but not in the lime light.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0507.269EBDC0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3510.1400"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Michael,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Sorry,=20
don't know where he is or if he is still alive.&nbsp; I'm posting this =
reply to=20
the Geodesic <FONT color=3D#000000><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff>newsletter</FONT> </FONT>in=20
the hope that there is someone who may know.&nbsp; (FYI, any posts to =
the=20
Geodesic <STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000>newsletter</FONT></STRONG> [about =
200=20
people] are automatically also forwarded to the Geodesic <FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000><STRONG>newsgroup</STRONG> </FONT>[about 8,000=20
readers])</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Take a=20
look in the <FONT color=3D#ff0000><FONT =
color=3D#008000><STRONG>Links/People/=20
</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>section of my website; there may =
be some=20
info of use to you.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Welcome aboard!&nbsp; (Now you might start planning to have =
your own web=20
pages.)&nbsp; I'm now getting about 1,000 &quot;impressions&quot; per=20
month.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>PS:=20
See <STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Selected Ideas/Icosahedra/Dome=20
Houseboat/</FONT></STRONG></FONT></SPAN><BR></DIV>
<P><B><FONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial>Joe S Moore</FONT></B> =
<BR><B><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial>joemoore@cruzio.com </FONT></B><BR><B><FONT =

color=3D#800080 face=3DArial>Buckminster Fuller Virtual =
Institute</FONT></B>=20
<BR><B><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial><A =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A></FONT></B> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Michael S =
Mitchell=20
    [mailto:4MICKEY@prodigy.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 30, =
1998 2:00=20
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> joemoore@mail.cruzio.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Don=20
    Moore<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Yes, You are right! It was Don =
Moore with=20
    the popout tensegrity.&nbsp; Sorry I went that direction.&nbsp; Is =
Don still=20
    alive?&nbsp;&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
    size=3D2><SPAN class=3D360042603-01111998><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>=20
    </FONT></SPAN>Where is he?&nbsp; I once flew with Bucky from =
Portland Maine=20
    or Mount Holyoak college, Bodin, kenyon? or some where like that to =
Chicago=20
    for a meeting and Don met us at the airport as we went off to Toni =
Huston's=20
    Hotel for dinner.&nbsp; Then We met at Edwadsville a while latter =
together=20
    from Carbondale about the time Bucky renewed his last drivers =
license.&nbsp;=20
    I remember him being so happy he made his drivers test.&nbsp; He was =
about=20
    73 or so.&nbsp; Don Moore took me to his University office and said, =
&quot;=20
    here this is your office any time you want to use it.&nbsp; What a =
guy! I am=20
    sure you are just as brave a person to be friends with people and I =
hope we=20
    can do the same in co-operation for the goals of true happiness for =
humanity=20
    while we are on earth and beyond.&nbsp; How does that sound? If I =
can help=20
    in any way about RBF let me know! I worked very close with him for =
many=20
    years, but not in the lime light. =
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0507.269EBDC0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:15:44 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEAR-EARTH & SPACE DOMES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit

See: Selected Ideas/Icosahedra/Huge/Near-Earth Domes/
See: Selected Ideas/Icosahedra/Huge/Space Station Domes/

Joe S Moore
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/